About Religion

Question:

-snip- > Why did this silly controversy suddenly arise? Who started it? > From what I’ve read, Fox News started it.

   As a way of generating Fox-style News. Just another papier-mache controversy to fill up all those empty "news" hours.

Response:

>X-No-Archive:yes >It seems that pundits are getting into the ‘Holiday Greeting’ >situation. Whole articles are being written about whether a decorated >tree is a Christmas Tree or a Holiday Tree.  Whether it is appropriate >to wish someone ‘Merry Christmans’ or ‘Happy Holidays".  I’m sure those >in the NG have some comments – let’s hear them.

We plan on having a very *MERRY* Christmas and a *HAPPY* New Year party. Looking forward to these two *HOLIDAYS* being *HAPPY*.

Response:

>> Why did this silly controversy suddenly arise? Who started it? >Same people who are trying to trach religion as scirnce? There is a >goor article in today’s Wadnington Post titled: What ‘War on Christmas’ >? >For my part, friends who I know are Christian, I wish a Merry >Christmas. My Jewiah friends and those whose affiliaeion I don’r know, >get a happy Holidays. It is such a no-brainer that even Bush got it >right. >Dave

   Happy Hanukkah for Jews?

Response:

>X-No-Archive:yes >It seems that pundits are getting into the ‘Holiday Greeting’ >situation. Whole articles are being written about whether a decorated >tree is a Christmas Tree or a Holiday Tree.  Whether it is appropriate >to wish someone ‘Merry Christmans’ or ‘Happy Holidays".  I’m sure those >in the NG have some comments – let’s hear them. > Why did this silly controversy suddenly arise? Who started it?

From what I’ve read, Fox News started it.

Response:

This discussion has been around at least 50 years.  I remember Rudolph welcomed with a chorus of groans.    Toci – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->X-No-Archive:yes >It seems that pundits are getting into the ‘Holiday Greeting’ >situation. Whole articles are being written about whether a decorated >tree is a Christmas Tree or a Holiday Tree.  Whether it is appropriate >to wish someone ‘Merry Christmans’ or ‘Happy Holidays".  I’m sure those >in the NG have some comments – let’s hear them. > Why did this silly controversy suddenly arise? Who started it?

Response:

> X-No-Archive:yes > It seems that pundits are getting into the ‘Holiday Greeting’ > situation. Whole articles are being written about whether a decorated > tree is a Christmas Tree or a Holiday Tree.  Whether it is appropriate > to wish someone ‘Merry Christmans’ or ‘Happy Holidays".  I’m sure those > in the NG have some comments – let’s hear them.

A rattle. You shake it and it makes noise.

Response:

In France it is "Sapin de No

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Devotional Guide > For the week of November 27, 2005 > BIBLICAL WITNESS FELLOWSHIP > About loving a sinner > To Read: Psalms 114-116 > To Know: >

Question:

America Today America Today This is to tell you a story. America is dumber, more mediocre, and has destroyed the values that built it. What "values" were destroyed?  What were those "values" in the first place? You mean the "values" of slavery, or killing of American Indians for the purpose of taking over their land?  Of not allowing women the right to vote? The values of racial segregation? Why can’t America keep the foam on the space shuttle? Because it is easy to say that we should be able to keep foam on the space shuttle, and a whole lot harder to figure out who to do that? Why can’t Boston finish a tunnel? Becuase it is not an easy job, trying to build a tunnel under a city that is on top of the tunnel? Why can’t America build a high speed train system? Acela was a failure, only gets you from Boston to NY fifteen minutes faster than the older train. Because they neither want to, nor think it is necessary?  If you build this wonderful new system, what happens if you have the system, and not enough people ride it? Why did America allow its government agencies to become like FEMA, a bureaucracy that proves America does no better than third world countries? Are you going to make the argument that some third world country, if left on their own, can take care of what happens after a big hurricane better than the USA? Why can’t America make its airports safer with a system that is more effective than removing plastic knives on airplanes? Has there been another passenger jet high jacked? Why is it that nowadays so many Americans must tell their sob stories to some television show if they ever hope to achieve the American dream? "We" do not "have" to do that.  "Some" (a very very small percentage of the total population) may feel that is the way to achieve their goals, but the vast "majority" of Americans" neither have the desire nor the inclination to do that. Why is it that hard work does not get so many of them there anymore? Because it is not a true statement… When was the last great innovation that dramatically changed and improved the lives of Americans? Innovation is occurring all the time.  Does it require "great innovations" or would a whole lot more "little innovatins" also achieve the same results? Why can’t America deploy technology in a way that improves and helps its way of life and standards of living? First of all, it depends on what the phrase means. Anyone heard of WiFi? Sounds so special, so useful. Have you used it? It’s been around for years, you hear about it all the time. This happens to be the worse technology deployment ever in the history of this country. Because of greed and stupidity someone decided that you must be sitting at Starbucks or be close enough outside of the shop, if you prefer, to use that technology. A hotspot only has a range of 300ft. Never heard of WiFi sound, and not interested in knowing what it is.  I can live the balance of my life very happily without ever knowing what that technology delivers. Why is it that in a world class metropolis such as Boston I must take three trains to go from North Cambridge to the Airport and deal with a quaint trolley that all of a sudden doesn’t seem so special when I haul luggage? You do not "have to" do that.  You "could" drive, if you drive.  If you can drive, and you do own a car, you make a "choice" to get to the airport by some other means.  Also, it is possible, you "think" this is a problem, because you are a cheapskate, or poor?  Why not take a taxi?  Certainly they must have things like Super Shuttle in the Boston area? Given that I don’t want to find the elevators and don’t want to be in them most of the time, If you do not want to take the time to find the elevators and don’t want to be in them, it would seem to me that is a "choice" you made, so stop complaining.  I have the added aggravation of dealing with a few flights of steps where there are no escalators. Why can’t Boston have an airport station where it doesn’t take two elevators (take one up then walk across and take one down) to go from one side of the train tracks to the other? Why does it take more than a year to build a little town square in Porter Sq Cambridge MA? Part of the sidewalk construction for that project involved the use of styrofoam held to the concrete with strips of gray duct tape all along. As the government types who are in charge in Boston…. A construction company convinced itself to do this shoddy work to plant those patterns. Will the sidewalk construction hold up long enough until the square itself is finished? It seems to be falling apart already. Who awarded the contract to these people.  If they are as incompetent as you make them out to be, whose fault is that?  It would seem to me, it is the fault of the people who gave these incompetent people the contract…. Apparently, Americans don’t know the right recipe to mix concrete anymore. What has happened to companies such as the Ford Motor Company, to General Motors? Why do their lives as companies seem programmed to provide patterns for some sort of religion? The statement above did not make any sense to me…could not figure out what message you were trying to convey… Why can’t America find terrorists? Bin Laden, I was told doesn’t blend easily into a crowd. Why can’t America solve murders anymore? So many of them go unsolved nowadays. Think of this like the game of hide and seek.  Those who hide are trying to avoid being found, and those who seek out those who are hiding, are tyring to find them.  The winner goes to the one who does the best job…. Why doesn’t anyone speak English anymore? Nowadays it is more important to Americans when speaking to utter and plant patterns than it is to make sense. Mediocrity is everywhere in the products and services that average Americans have in their lives. If not one spoke English anymore, there would be no one to read this message.  So, if you believe that no one speaks English anymore, why are you bothering to post a message that no one could understnad? Why did America a God-fearing country forget to put God into law? Because of this oversight state supreme courts and the US supreme court of have their hands tied when it comes to handing down rulings that protect America from destruction. I get worried about nominees that will only "interpret the letter of the law". The legality of partial birth abortion was upheld before the George W. Bush signed a bill to ban this barbaric procedure, a ban that is still being challenged. Because they did not want to? Final comment, why in the world did you post such a long message?  Did you really expect any of us to read it?

Response:

America Today America Today This is to tell you a story. America is dumber, more mediocre, and has destroyed the values that built it. Why can’t America keep the foam on the space shuttle? Why can’t Boston finish a tunnel? Why can

Question:

Jesus: "I have called My Movement to promote oneness in families, peoples, My Church and the world. "Leaders who persist in their imperfections as the way for selfish feelings and for a selfish will, will not be a good leader — "They will show others their imperfect, impure ways, focusing only on themselves and in the end — not lend to the renewal of the Church and the world. "To be part of My Movement demands order, love and growing to purity — do not turn a deaf ear to My messages — "they are given for the renewal of the Church and the world — "If you do not follow them — you will be a weak leader in My Movement. "Pride is an enemy. "Feeling you are perfect — stops growth — "Focusing on self-pity and not doing your job hurts the work needed to be accomplished — " ***** Read more at http://www.sofc.org/DAILY/dailymsg.htm

Response:

> Jesus: "I have called My Movement to promote oneness in families, peoples, > My Church and the world.

Primitives had no laws, no law enforcement they lived in fear of other humans mainly those that would today be called ‘the criminal element’ So what did they have to fall back on? The fear of an imaginary god, that’s all. There were and in some cases still are, thousands of gods from primitive times. It is now  2005 and Time to Think for yourself.. bob Humanist BNrit. Hong Kong Strive to imbue that people with good morals, and bring it to pass, as well through yourself as through those whom you know from their faith, doctrine, and course of life to be fit for such a work, that the church may there be adorned, the Christian religion planted and made to grow, and the things which pertain to the honor of God and to salvation be so ordered that you may merit to obtain an abundant and lasting reward from God, and on earth a name glorious throughout the ages

Question:

The message from Elvis Kabong to Lord Valve yesterday evening was genuine.  Ed Blum lives. Ed’s shop and its contents were flooded by the hurricane and are mostly unsalvageable.  There was 3 feet of water in the shop, the roof blew off, and most of the equipment and furniture inside was saturated. He rode out the hurricane in his house in New Orleans East and was stranded on his roof where he was subsequently rescued.  He was taken to the Convention Center where he spent several days, then to the airport where he was evacuated on an airplane sponsored by Al Gore to Chatanooga, TN.  Al was on the plane and shook hands with Ed. Ed is curently staying with family in Harahan, LA, outside of New Orleans.  He probably will relocate his business to another city. Spokesman for Ed

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The message from Elvis Kabong to Lord Valve yesterday evening was > genuine.  Ed Blum lives. > Ed’s shop and its contents were flooded by the hurricane and are > mostly unsalvageable.  There was 3 feet of water in the shop, the roof > blew off, and most of the equipment and furniture inside was saturated. > He rode out the hurricane in his house in New Orleans East and was > stranded on his roof where he was subsequently rescued.  He was taken > to the Convention Center where he spent several days, then to the > airport where he was evacuated on an airplane sponsored by Al Gore to > Chatanooga, TN.  Al was on the plane and shook hands with Ed. > Ed is curently staying with family in Harahan, LA, outside of New > Orleans.  He probably will relocate his business to another city. > Spokesman for Ed

If Ed didn’t love Al gore before, he sure does now! (Man…"several days" in the New Orleans convention center–that must’ve sucked. Any PTSD counseling?)   –E

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The message from Elvis Kabong to Lord Valve yesterday evening was >genuine.  Ed Blum lives. >Ed’s shop and its contents were flooded by the hurricane and are >mostly unsalvageable.  There was 3 feet of water in the shop, the roof >blew off, and most of the equipment and furniture inside was saturated. >He rode out the hurricane in his house in New Orleans East and was >stranded on his roof where he was subsequently rescued.  He was taken >to the Convention Center where he spent several days, then to the >airport where he was evacuated on an airplane sponsored by Al Gore to >Chatanooga, TN.  Al was on the plane and shook hands with Ed. >Ed is curently staying with family in Harahan, LA, outside of New >Orleans.  He probably will relocate his business to another city. >Spokesman for Ed

It’s good to hear he’s alive.  Bummer about the business but first things first. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

> If Ed didn’t love Al gore before, he sure does now! > (Man…"several days" in the New Orleans convention center–that > must’ve sucked.

It could have sucked worse but he camped out in the middle of an entire tribe of Vietnamese who were highly resourceful and surprisingly prepared in their ability to sustain themselves in the midst of such chaos while the other freaks were spinning around in circles doing stupid shit. The wait at the airport was more brutal. No guff, bk

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The message from Elvis Kabong to Lord Valve yesterday evening was >genuine.  Ed Blum lives. >Ed’s shop and its contents were flooded by the hurricane and are >mostly unsalvageable.  There was 3 feet of water in the shop, the roof >blew off, and most of the equipment and furniture inside was saturated. >He rode out the hurricane in his house in New Orleans East and was >stranded on his roof where he was subsequently rescued.  He was taken >to the Convention Center where he spent several days, then to the >airport where he was evacuated on an airplane sponsored by Al Gore to >Chatanooga, TN.  Al was on the plane and shook hands with Ed. >Ed is curently staying with family in Harahan, LA, outside of New >Orleans.  He probably will relocate his business to another city. >Spokesman for Ed > If Ed didn’t love Al gore before, he sure does now! > (Man…"several days" in the New Orleans convention center–that > must’ve sucked. Any PTSD counseling?)

Most surely, anybody having to deal with Blum would need PTSD counseling in a big way.  I’m supposing Ed was certainly *able* to get out of NO before the storm/flood, so it seems he purposely stayed, and was thus evacuated at public expense and risk. I’m wondering if he told these rescuers what he *thinks* about the US govt and US military..??? If he’s clever, in even the smallest way, he’ll scoop up some govt cash (plus any insurance???) and get himself set up again. Dare we think he’ll not have lots to filth to spew once he’s back..??? Maybe he can salvage his bat…. (??!!) Blumby will now live forever as a survivor of Katrina… which although one of our biggest (if not THE biggest) hurricane disasters, seems to pale in comparison to the recent *disaster* in Pakistan/Kashmir region. Looks *possible* that around 40,000 lives were lost… so far.  That’s 40,000 folks… Katrina doesn’t seem so bad actually…???? I notice that the earthquake in Kashmir has become merely a *byline* on the CNN website in a matter of days…  it’ll be gone from the news in another week (???).  It doesn’t have the cachet that a Tsunami does.. Mother Nature is been pretty rough on humankind in the Asian/Pacific region the last couple years… and although it’s nothing *new*, it DOES give the networks some ‘feed’ to break up slow news days. Note that to ‘get on the news’ it always *helps* if there is a little "devestation" to go along with the death.  The annual loss in Africa due to starvation hardly gets a mention these days, unless Bono has something to say. gtski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   –E

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>The message from Elvis Kabong to Lord Valve yesterday evening was >>genuine.  Ed Blum lives. >>Ed’s shop and its contents were flooded by the hurricane and are >>mostly unsalvageable.  There was 3 feet of water in the shop, the roof >>blew off, and most of the equipment and furniture inside was saturated. >>He rode out the hurricane in his house in New Orleans East and was >>stranded on his roof where he was subsequently rescued.  He was taken >>to the Convention Center where he spent several days, then to the >>airport where he was evacuated on an airplane sponsored by Al Gore to >>Chatanooga, TN.  Al was on the plane and shook hands with Ed. >>Ed is curently staying with family in Harahan, LA, outside of New >>Orleans.  He probably will relocate his business to another city. >>Spokesman for Ed > If Ed didn’t love Al gore before, he sure does now! > (Man…"several days" in the New Orleans convention center–that > must’ve sucked. Any PTSD counseling?) >Most surely, anybody having to deal with Blum would need PTSD >counseling in a big way.  I’m supposing Ed was certainly *able* to get >out of NO before the storm/flood, so it seems he purposely stayed, and >was thus evacuated at public expense and risk.

Talk about making your own fate! >I’m wondering if he >told these rescuers what he *thinks* about the US govt and US >military..???

Are you kidding?  Those assholes didn’t rescue him fast enough, after he didn’t leave on his own when he could have!!!!! I mean, if he didn’t have to finish all the beers in the fridge first. A man’s got to have his priorities. >If he’s clever, in even the smallest way, he’ll scoop up some govt >cash (plus any insurance???) and get himself set up again. Dare we >think he’ll not have lots to filth to spew once he’s back..??? >Maybe he can salvage his bat…. (??!!) >Blumby will now live forever as a survivor of Katrina…

Survivor of Katrina, or indebted *to* Katrina? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->which >although one of our biggest (if not THE biggest) hurricane disasters, >seems to pale in comparison to the recent *disaster* in >Pakistan/Kashmir region. Looks *possible* that around 40,000 lives >were lost… so far.  That’s 40,000 folks… >Katrina doesn’t seem so bad actually…???? >I notice that the earthquake in Kashmir has become merely a *byline* >on the CNN website in a matter of days…  it’ll be gone from the news >in another week (???).  It doesn’t have the cachet that a Tsunami does.. >Mother Nature is been pretty rough on humankind in the Asian/Pacific >region the last couple years… and although it’s nothing *new*, it >DOES give the networks some ‘feed’ to break up slow news days. Note >that to ‘get on the news’ it always *helps* if there is a little >"devestation" to go along with the death.  The annual loss in Africa >due to starvation hardly gets a mention these days, unless Bono has >something to say. >gtski

CNN.  Entertainment for disaster junkies. Pete — It’s been that way since time began. You wanna try & change change something that’s worked for ten zillion years?  –Zorak

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The message from Elvis Kabong to Lord Valve yesterday evening was > genuine.  Ed Blum lives. > Ed’s shop and its contents were flooded by the hurricane and are > mostly unsalvageable.  There was 3 feet of water in the shop, the roof > blew off, and most of the equipment and furniture inside was saturated. > He rode out the hurricane in his house in New Orleans East and was > stranded on his roof where he was subsequently rescued.  He was taken > to the Convention Center where he spent several days, then to the > airport where he was evacuated on an airplane sponsored by Al Gore to > Chatanooga, TN.  Al was on the plane and shook hands with Ed. > Ed is curently staying with family in Harahan, LA, outside of New > Orleans.  He probably will relocate his business to another city. > Spokesman for Ed

For some reason this whole thread isn’t showing on my regualr news server, so I’m forced to post from Google. Anyway, despite my kidding on the previous thread, it’s good to hear that there was no severe personal injury etc… Too bad about the shop and personal property, that’s a tough deal. But as many surivors say; "lucky to get out alive" and that’s the important thing. John King

Response:

FOX. Education for you -personally. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >CNN.  Entertainment for disaster junkies. > Pete > — > It’s been that way since time began. > You wanna try & change change something > that’s worked for ten zillion years?  –Zorak

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The message from Elvis Kabong to Lord Valve yesterday evening was >genuine.  Ed Blum lives. >Ed’s shop and its contents were flooded by the hurricane and are >mostly unsalvageable.  There was 3 feet of water in the shop, the roof >blew off, and most of the equipment and furniture inside was saturated. >He rode out the hurricane in his house in New Orleans East and was >stranded on his roof where he was subsequently rescued.  He was taken >to the Convention Center where he spent several days, then to the >airport where he was evacuated on an airplane sponsored by Al Gore to >Chatanooga, TN.  Al was on the plane and shook hands with Ed. >Ed is curently staying with family in Harahan, LA, outside of New >Orleans.  He probably will relocate his business to another city. >Spokesman for Ed > For some reason this whole thread isn’t showing on my regualr news > server, so I’m forced to post from Google. > Anyway, despite my kidding on the previous thread, it’s good to > hear that there was no severe personal injury etc… > Too bad about the shop and personal property, that’s a tough deal. > But as many surivors say; "lucky to get out alive" and that’s the > important thing. > John King

Yes, it is. I wish no hardship of that nature on anyone, ever. From nature to luck and back to human beings, The Blues has a sound place in my heart and if religion does the same thing for others, they’re welcome to it.

Response:

Who gives a shit?

(snore)

Response:

> Talk about making your own fate!

PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? Ed’s Katrina ordeal is nothing compared to the life you live on a daily basis.  But you already know this, don’t you? Must be lonely down in that deep, dark, cold hole.  You truly deserve all of our pity more so than Ed. Life’s a bitch… SFE

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Talk about making your own fate! >PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, >worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? >Ed’s Katrina ordeal is nothing compared to the life you live on a daily >basis.  But you already know this, don’t you? >Must be lonely down in that deep, dark, cold hole.  You truly deserve >all of our pity more so than Ed. >Life’s a bitch… >;) >SFE

Ed didn’t leave when he was warned to, so he had to be rescued.   It’s called making your own fate. Anyone who doesn’t know what a low life piece of shit Ed is, and how undeserving he is of my sympathy, hasn’t been paying attention for the last ten years. But it’s all in the archives for anyone who doubts me. Pete — I once battled a giant 50 foot ant. Thing like that changes a man. –Space Ghost

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ed didn’t leave when he was warned to, so he had to be rescued. > It’s called making your own fate. > Anyone who doesn’t know what a low life piece of shit Ed is, and how > undeserving he is of my sympathy, hasn’t been paying attention for the > last ten years. > But it’s all in the archives for anyone who doubts me. > Pete > — > I once battled a giant 50 foot ant. > Thing like that changes a man. –Space Ghost

I know it’s tough for you living with a handicap, so I’m going to repeat my question in case you didn’t notice it the first time:  PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? Think about it as long as you want.  Read it several times if you need to. SFE BTW – that Space Ghost quote is *really* funny!

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Talk about making your own fate! >PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, >worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? >Ed’s Katrina ordeal is nothing compared to the life you live on a daily >basis.  But you already know this, don’t you? >Must be lonely down in that deep, dark, cold hole.  You truly deserve >all of our pity more so than Ed. >Life’s a bitch… >;) >SFE >Ed didn’t leave when he was warned to, so he had to be rescued.   >It’s called making your own fate. >Anyone who doesn’t know what a low life piece of shit Ed is, and how >undeserving he is of my sympathy, hasn’t been paying attention for the >last ten years. >But it’s all in the archives for anyone who doubts me. >Pete

Are you categorizing Ed because of what you’ve seen here in this microscopic miasma or do you know Ed personally?  Unless I were one to know Ed in real life I wouldn’t let what goes on in here make me comment on his life outside to the point of wishing him ill will when he’s obviously down.  We all are, from time to time, possibly out of character in our dealings with each other in this tiny forum. And Ed is not alone in playing the supreme ass in this forum.  Various and sundry have worn that crown over time. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ed didn’t leave when he was warned to, so he had to be rescued. > It’s called making your own fate. > Anyone who doesn’t know what a low life piece of shit Ed is, and how > undeserving he is of my sympathy, hasn’t been paying attention for the > last ten years. > But it’s all in the archives for anyone who doubts me. > Pete > — > I once battled a giant 50 foot ant. > Thing like that changes a man. –Space Ghost >I know it’s tough for you living with a handicap, so I’m going to >repeat my question in case you didn’t notice it the first time:  PMG – >are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, >worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? >Think about it as long as you want.  Read it several times if you need >to. >SFE

Check the archives Ed.  I’m sure you can’t remember half the things you posted. >BTW – that Space Ghost quote is *really* funny!

Space Ghost’s good. Pete — I once battled a giant 50 foot ant. Thing like that changes a man. –Space Ghost

Response:

> > Talk about making your own fate! > PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, > worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness?

"We are each responsible for the consequences of our own decisions"                                                 Rev. Jesse Jackson

Response:

>>>Talk about making your own fate! >PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, >worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? > "We are each responsible for the consequences of our own decisions" >                                                 Rev. Jesse Jackson

… but the govt should *pay* for the consequences… according to the same Rev. Jackson…  If someone doesn’t finish school, ends up with no skills, the Rev. may think that person is ‘responsible’, but he also thinks it’s the govts responsibility to re-educate this person at taxpayer expense.  Or worse, find/provide a job paying MORE than market value for the employees skills…

Response:

> >I know it’s tough for you living with a handicap, so I’m going to >repeat my question in case you didn’t notice it the first time:  PMG – >are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, >worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? >Think about it as long as you want.  Read it several times if you need >to. >SFE > Check the archives Ed.  I’m sure you can’t remember half the things > you posted.

First off, I’m not Ed – but feel free to call me anything you want if it makes you feel better.  But in response to my question, "PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness?"  you’re saying the answer is in the archives??? That’s kind of a messed up response, don’t you think???  Or do you not know why you’re ignorant worthless, petty, and mean-spirited??? >BTW – that Space Ghost quote is *really* funny! > Space Ghost’s good. > Pete

yeah!  huh! huh huh!! SFE

Response:

> Are you categorizing Ed because of what you’ve seen here in this > microscopic miasma or do you know Ed personally?  Unless I were one to > know Ed in real life I wouldn’t let what goes on in here make me > comment on his life outside to the point of wishing him ill will when > he’s obviously down.  We all are, from time to time, possibly out of > character in our dealings with each other in this tiny forum.

You’re absolutely right Ken.  And it’s a damn shame that isn’t more obvious to morons like PMG. > And Ed is not alone in playing the supreme ass in this forum.  Various > and sundry have worn that crown over time. > Ken Wilson

BTW, have you noticed that Lord Valve rarely comes to the defense of his butt buddies when they’re being pummeled?  - in spite of the fact that his butt buddies (and you know who they are) immediately come to his defense and descend en masse like thugs upon any LV detractor.  He doesn’t mind the assistance, but at the same time doesn’t like to get his hands dirty.  Not a bad setup.  I’d say LV is sittin’ mighty pretty in here. Guess that’s why they call him the "Lord."   SFE

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are you categorizing Ed because of what you’ve seen here in this > microscopic miasma or do you know Ed personally?  Unless I were one to > know Ed in real life I wouldn’t let what goes on in here make me > comment on his life outside to the point of wishing him ill will when > he’s obviously down.  We all are, from time to time, possibly out of > character in our dealings with each other in this tiny forum. >You’re absolutely right Ken.  And it’s a damn shame that isn’t more >obvious to morons like PMG. > And Ed is not alone in playing the supreme ass in this forum.  Various > and sundry have worn that crown over time. > Ken Wilson >BTW, have you noticed that Lord Valve rarely comes to the defense of >his butt buddies when they’re being pummeled?  - in spite of the fact >that his butt buddies (and you know who they are) immediately come to >his defense and descend en masse like thugs upon any LV detractor.  He >doesn’t mind the assistance, but at the same time doesn’t like to get >his hands dirty.  Not a bad setup.  I’d say LV is sittin’ mighty pretty >in here. Guess that’s why they call him the "Lord."   >SFE

I hate to play typo police but there isn’t an ‘o’ in Lard. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

> I hate to play typo police but there isn’t an ‘o’ in Lard.

I stand corrected. SFE

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Talk about making your own fate! >>PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, >>worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? > "We are each responsible for the consequences of our own decisions" >                                                 Rev. Jesse Jackson > … but the govt should *pay* for the consequences… according to the > same Rev. Jackson…  If someone doesn’t finish school, ends up with > no skills, the Rev. may think that person is ‘responsible’, but he > also thinks it’s the govts responsibility to re-educate this person at > taxpayer expense.  Or worse, find/provide a job paying MORE than > market value for the employees skills…

Yep…you’re right there. Today’s gonna be interesting with Rev.Racist Farafart speaking at  the Million Mo’fo March in DC.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>>Talk about making your own fate! > >>PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, > >>worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? > > "We are each responsible for the consequences of our own decisions" > >                                                 Rev. Jesse Jackson > … but the govt should *pay* for the consequences… according to the > same Rev. Jackson…  If someone doesn’t finish school, ends up with > no skills, the Rev. may think that person is ‘responsible’, but he > also thinks it’s the govts responsibility to re-educate this person at > taxpayer expense.  Or worse, find/provide a job paying MORE than > market value for the employees skills… >Yep…you’re right there. Today’s gonna be interesting with Rev.Racist >Farafart speaking at  the Million Mo’fo March in DC.

People like Farrakhan don’t want to actually help his people, or teach them how to improve their lives.   Only unfortunate people follow someone like Farrakhan, and if they knew how to make something of their lives, they’d never waste their time following him. Pete — I once battled a giant 50 foot ant. Thing like that changes a man. –Space Ghost

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>>Talk about making your own fate! > >>PMG – are you responsible for making your own fate of ignorance, > >>worthlessness, pettiness, and mean-spiritedness? > > "We are each responsible for the consequences of our own decisions" > >                                                 Rev. Jesse Jackson > … but the govt should *pay* for the consequences… according to the > same Rev. Jackson…  If someone doesn’t finish school, ends up with > no skills, the Rev. may think that person is ‘responsible’, but he > also thinks it’s the govts responsibility to re-educate this person at > taxpayer expense.  Or worse, find/provide a job paying MORE than > market value for the employees skills… > Yep…you’re right there. Today’s gonna be interesting with Rev.Racist > Farafart speaking at  the Million Mo’fo March in DC.

Is this going to be a 160,000-man Million Man March like the last one? LV

Response:

I can think of some white guys who call themselves preachers about whom you could say the same.

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Question:

Soldier Reports More Abuses to Senator By ERIC SCHMITT Published: October 5, 2005 WASHINGTON, Oct. 4 – An Army captain who has reported new allegations of detainee abuse in Iraq met Tuesday with Senator John McCain and staff aides on the House Armed Services Committee and gave them additional accounts of abuse in Iraq that other soldiers had sent him in recent days, Congressional aides said. The officer, Capt. Ian Fishback, in a brief interview after his half-hour meeting with Mr. McCain declined to describe the new information he gave the senator or, in a separate meeting, to the House aides. But Captain Fishback said that since he and two other former members of the 82nd Airborne Division last month accused soldiers in their battalion in Iraq of routinely beating and abusing prisoners in 2003 and 2004, several other soldiers had contacted him and asked him to relay to lawmakers their own experiences. Mr. McCain, an Arizona Republican on the Armed Services Committee, said nothing in a statement about any new reports of abuse, saying only, "I’m even more impressed by what a fine and honorable officer he is." But a senior House aide who met with Captain Fishback said the officer had read a letter from a sergeant describing detainee abuse in Iraq and allowed the aides to read the document before taking it back. The aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity because Captain Fishback related the information in confidence for use in a possible Congressional investigation, declined to give details of the abuse. In separate statements to Human Rights Watch, Captain Fishback and two sergeants related their experiences as they recounted how members of the First Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry, had repeatedly beaten Iraqi prisoners, exposed them to extremes of hot and cold, and stacked them in human pyramids at Camp Mercury, a forward operating base near Falluja. The abuses reportedly took place between September 2003 and April 2004, before and during the abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. The Army has started a criminal inquiry into the allegations by Captain Fishback and the two sergeants. Captain Fishback is scheduled to meet Wednesday with Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee. _____ Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company <http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/05/international/middleeast/05abuse.html>        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever happened. Watching too much Hogan’s Heroes, eh pee wee? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Soldier Reports More Abuses to Senator >By ERIC SCHMITT >Published: October 5, 2005 >WASHINGTON, Oct. 4 – An Army captain who has reported new allegations of detainee abuse in Iraq met >Tuesday with Senator John McCain and staff aides on the House Armed Services Committee and gave >them additional accounts of abuse in Iraq that other soldiers had sent him in recent days, >Congressional aides said. >The officer, Capt. Ian Fishback, in a brief interview after his half-hour meeting with Mr. McCain >declined to describe the new information he gave the senator or, in a separate meeting, to the >House aides. But Captain Fishback said that since he and two other former members of the 82nd >Airborne Division last month accused soldiers in their battalion in Iraq of routinely beating and >abusing prisoners in 2003 and 2004, several other soldiers had contacted him and asked him to relay >to lawmakers their own experiences. >Mr. McCain, an Arizona Republican on the Armed Services Committee, said nothing in a statement >about any new reports of abuse, saying only, "I’m even more impressed by what a fine and honorable >officer he is." >But a senior House aide who met with Captain Fishback said the officer had read a letter from a >sergeant describing detainee abuse in Iraq and allowed the aides to read the document before taking >it back. The aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity because Captain Fishback related the >information in confidence for use in a possible Congressional investigation, declined to give >details of the abuse. >In separate statements to Human Rights Watch, Captain Fishback and two sergeants related their >experiences as they recounted how members of the First Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry, had >repeatedly beaten Iraqi prisoners, exposed them to extremes of hot and cold, and stacked them in >human pyramids at Camp Mercury, a forward operating base near Falluja. >The abuses reportedly took place between September 2003 and April 2004, before and during the >abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. >The Army has started a criminal inquiry into the allegations by Captain Fishback and the two >sergeants. >Captain Fishback is scheduled to meet Wednesday with Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the ranking >Democrat on the Armed Services Committee. >_____ >Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company ><http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/05/international/middleeast/05abuse.html> >       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >             >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >-=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

it shoulda been the last. We are supposed to be above this kind of behavior – we’re the good guys remember? Of course nobody is gonna make sure we show up at any Nuremburg style trials. We’re above justice these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity.

Response:

We’re above justice > these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity.

Another post that flies in the face of reality. Did you already forget that Ms. England was convicted last week? But why let facts impact your posts? See ya, John

Response:

>We’re above justice > these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity. >Another post that flies in the face of reality. Did you already forget that >Ms. England was convicted last week? But why let facts impact your posts?

"Ms. England" is guilty only of being stupid, ignorant, and suggestible.   The actual culpability is located way further up the command chain, and neither The White House nor The Pentagon are inclined to look beyond the enlisted scapegoats.        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

>it shoulda been the last. We are supposed to be above this kind of >behavior – we’re the good guys remember? Of course nobody is gonna make >sure we show up at any Nuremburg style trials. We’re above justice >these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity.

Yep, they’ll chop our heads off and video tape it and advertise it with pride, but watch out if we get some scum to ‘pose’ in the wrong position. What’s next, are you all gonna demand we use rubber bullets and use fire hoses instead of tanks because"we’re the good guys"?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We’re above justice >> these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity. >Another post that flies in the face of reality. Did you already forget that >Ms. England was convicted last week? But why let facts impact your posts? >"Ms. England" is guilty >only of being stupid, >ignorant, and suggestible.   >The actual culpability is >located way further up the >command chain, and neither >The White House nor The >Pentagon are inclined to >look beyond the enlisted >scapegoats.

And again, you’re a fool to believe this is the first time this has happened in warfare. If anything, the White House and Pentagon should be praised by you for their public investigation into this.

Response:

How many times is the Bush whitehouse going to investigate itself… Yeah this happens in warfare all the time, Geneva conventions are violated.  So that means it’s OK?  That means it’s not important to hold the persons responisble accountable? And the fact that atrocities happen is all the more reason to be careful about going to war.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>We’re above justice >>> these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity. >>Another post that flies in the face of reality. Did you already forget that >>Ms. England was convicted last week? But why let facts impact your posts? >"Ms. England" is guilty >only of being stupid, >ignorant, and suggestible.   >The actual culpability is >located way further up the >command chain, and neither >The White House nor The >Pentagon are inclined to >look beyond the enlisted >scapegoats. >And again, you’re a fool to believe this is the first time this has >happened in warfare. If anything, the White House and Pentagon should >be praised by you for their public investigation into this.

I’m not naive enough to believe this the first time atrocities have been committed by those wearing American military uniforms, but so far the so-called "investigations" are nothing more or other than an abuse of the military justice system in the service of what amounts to a cover-up to protect the policy makers in DC and the general officers who’ve implemented their decisions.        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

Who is "they" and who are the "scum" DB?  Any Iraqi?  All Iraqis?  Or just the ones you hate?

Response:

> I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever > happened.

I bet you don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s happening.

Response:

courageously avow: >it shoulda been the last. We are supposed to be above this kind of >behavior – we’re the good guys remember? Of course nobody is gonna make >sure we show up at any Nuremburg style trials. We’re above justice >these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity.

Sorry Zoot.  You have rarely been the good guys for a long time. Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We’re above justice >> these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity. >Another post that flies in the face of reality. Did you already forget that >Ms. England was convicted last week? But why let facts impact your posts? >"Ms. England" is guilty >only of being stupid, >ignorant, and suggestible.   >The actual culpability is >located way further up the >command chain, and neither >The White House nor The >Pentagon are inclined to >look beyond the enlisted >scapegoats.

What kind of reply did you expect from Bush own personal apologist. Ms. England looks like a sack of potatoes and appears about as bright. The good news is the forces are going to lower their grading standards so more recruits can make the cut and serve as cannon fodder in Iraq. Just what the Army needs, Privates Dumb and Dumber. Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

> > I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever > happened. > I bet you don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s happening.

and would like to join in "the fun".

Response:

>> I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever > happened. >I bet you don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s happening.

From what’s been reported… I really don’t give a rat’s ass. Very minor shit being blown out of proportion. That’s one problem with a democracy. This shit should be kept internal, not blown all over the media so it can be used against us on Al Jazeera. Like one General said, theres nothing new to show, just more of the same. When you punish a soldier publicly, you punish every soldier… but too many people are out to get Bush at all costs. For too many people, getting power to keep abortion, to legalize gay marriage, to ban the death penalty etc. is more important then winning the war against terror. Our enemies must laugh at us sometimes for how easy we make it for them to recruit more terrorists. Between this, the war protests, the ACLU and the liberal media – CBS, MSNBC, NY Times etc., Osama and pals don’t have to do much at all to continue the war. Way too many people here spend way too much time sweating the little shit instead of the big shit – the big shit being Western culture. Mosty people are now like, "9/11, that couldn’t happen again. It’s an overblown threat by Dumbya. That was a long time ago…"

Response:

> >> I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever >> happened. >I bet you don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s happening. > I really don’t give a rat’s ass.

No surprises there.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever >> happened. >I bet you don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s happening. > From what’s been reported… I really don’t give a rat’s ass. Very > minor shit being blown out of proportion. That’s one problem with a > democracy. This shit should be kept internal, not blown all over the > media so it can be used against us on Al Jazeera. Like one General > said, theres nothing new to show, just more of the same. > When you punish a soldier publicly, you punish every soldier… but > too many people are out to get Bush at all costs. For too many people, > getting power to keep abortion, to legalize gay marriage, to ban the > death penalty etc. is more important then winning the war against > terror. > Our enemies must laugh at us sometimes for how easy we make it for > them to recruit more terrorists. Between this, the war protests, the > ACLU and the liberal media – CBS, MSNBC, NY Times etc., Osama and pals > don’t have to do much at all to continue the war. > Way too many people here spend way too much time sweating the little > shit instead of the big shit – the big shit being Western culture.

If you are ‘Western culture’ the world needs it like it needs two assholes.  I think I’ll start learning Mandarin or Farsee now.  Oh, and both your movies stunk to high heaven.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever > >> happened. > >I bet you don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s happening. > From what’s been reported… I really don’t give a rat’s ass. Very > minor shit being blown out of proportion. That’s one problem with a > democracy. This shit should be kept internal, not blown all over the > media so it can be used against us on Al Jazeera. Like one General > said, theres nothing new to show, just more of the same. > When you punish a soldier publicly, you punish every soldier… but > too many people are out to get Bush at all costs. For too many people, > getting power to keep abortion, to legalize gay marriage, to ban the > death penalty etc. is more important then winning the war against > terror. > Our enemies must laugh at us sometimes for how easy we make it for > them to recruit more terrorists. Between this, the war protests, the > ACLU and the liberal media – CBS, MSNBC, NY Times etc., Osama and pals > don’t have to do much at all to continue the war. > Way too many people here spend way too much time sweating the little > shit instead of the big shit – the big shit being Western culture. >If you are ‘Western culture’ the world needs it like it needs two >assholes.  I think I’ll start learning Mandarin or Farsee now.  Oh, and >both your movies stunk to high heaven.

At least Deuce has a few movies to his credit. What have you created lately, other than a dank smelling urine stain on your mom’s couch? A new sock or two? Wow. — |   ^        JOIN THE |  /"   ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN |   /    TO RID USENET OF |   X    NATTERING FUCKWITS |  /    

Response:

>Our enemies must laugh at us sometimes for how easy we make it for >them to recruit more terrorists.

The war in Iraq has been the ultimate recruiting tool for Islamic extremists. Idiot

Response:

courageously avow: >Our enemies must laugh at us sometimes for how easy we make it for >them to recruit more terrorists. >The war in Iraq has been the ultimate recruiting tool for Islamic >extremists. >Idiot

Why do they have to be Islamic?  There are a number of people with a number of reasons not to like the US and the reasons aren’t based on any form of organized religion or religious beliefs. Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

>> >> I bet Brucie believes this is the first war shit like this ever > >> happened. > >I bet you don’t give a rat’s ass that it’s happening. > I really don’t give a rat’s ass. >No surprises there.

Do you watch Fox News, the whole 24 hours, not just clips from a few shows?

Response:

>If you are ‘Western culture’ the world needs it like it needs two >assholes.  I think I’ll start learning Mandarin or Farsee now.  Oh, and >both your movies stunk to high heaven.

Ed "The Looter" Blum?

Response:

>>Our enemies must laugh at us sometimes for how easy we make it for >them to recruit more terrorists. >The war in Iraq has been the ultimate recruiting tool for Islamic >extremists.

Oh yeah, forgot, Iraq invaded Kuwait AFTER we knocked out Saddam. Oh yeah, forgot, 9/11 happened AFTER Iraq. Fuckin’ shit-for-brains. Back to the NY Times Kids pullout section for you… (make sure you share with Tampax, good boy)

Response:

Another snappy comeback, right on point as usual

Response:

>courageously avow: >it shoulda been the last. We are supposed to be above this kind of >behavior – we’re the good guys remember? Of course nobody is gonna make >sure we show up at any Nuremburg style trials. We’re above justice >these days so the need to be good is no longer a necessity. >Sorry Zoot.  You have rarely been the good guys for a long time. >Ken Wilson

Yep, the world was a lot safer with the Taliban, Saddam and Osama calling the shots. Remember, those are the good guys. Typical Canadian liberal idiot. Could you imagine if Osama, Saddam or that one-eyed Taliban leader were in control of the US? First, there would be no more Canada, because you’ve relied on the US for your safety for so long, we would have ran over your weak ass in day 1 (using the NOLA police dept.) in defense of Allah. Second, instead of posed pictures, public beheadings of Canadians would be the order of the day, in defense of Allah. Third, there would be no more world as we would have flung all our nukes at all the western countries in defense of Allah. Cindy Sheehan meet Ken "The Floater" Wilson.

Response:

Question:

"The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:     * Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.     * Your right to equal protection under the law – equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.     * Your right to due process – fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.     * Your right to privacy – freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs."

Response:

And that’s exactly why I joined it. Mr Soul Real American

Response:

Left out the "2nd amendment there citizen!!!! Russia. Texas Blue

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and > guarantees: >    * Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and > assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the > strict separation of church and state. >    * Your right to equal protection under the law – equal treatment > regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin. >    * Your right to due process – fair treatment by the government > whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake. >    * Your right to privacy – freedom from unwarranted government > intrusion into your personal and private affairs."

Response:

> And that’s exactly why I joined it. > Mr Soul > Real American

Likewise.

Response:

courageously avow: >"The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and >guarantees: >    * Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and >assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the >strict separation of church and state. >    * Your right to equal protection under the law – equal treatment >regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin. >    * Your right to due process – fair treatment by the government >whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake. >    * Your right to privacy – freedom from unwarranted government >intrusion into your personal and private affairs."

We’re Republicans.  We don’t need no steenking rights. Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

>From the GREAT STATE OF MAINE…

Wal-Mart: "Always low prices…und vee are vatching you and your troublemaking vays veeeery carefully!" Selina Jarvis is the chair of the social studies department at Currituck County High School in North Carolina, and she is not used to having the Secret Service question her or one of her students. But that’s what happened on September 20. Jarvis had assigned her senior civics and economics class "to take photographs to illustrate their rights in the Bill of Rights," she says.  One student "had taken a photo of George Bush out of a magazine and tacked the picture to a wall with a red thumb tack through his head.  Then he made a thumb’s down sign with his own hand next to the President’s picture, and he had a photo taken of that, and he pasted it on a poster." According to Jarvis, the student, who remains anonymous, was just doing his assignment, illustrating the right to dissent. But over at the Kitty Hawk Wal-Mart, where the student took his film to be developed, this right is evidently suspect.  An employee in that Wal-Mart photo department called the Kitty Hawk police on the student. And the Kitty Hawk police turned the matter over to the Secret Service. On Tuesday, September 20, the Secret Service came to Currituck High. "At 1:35, the student came to me and told me that the Secret Service had taken his poster," Jarvis says.  "I didn’t believe him at first. But they had come into my room when I wasn’t there and had taken his poster, which was in a stack with all the others."  She says the student was upset. "He was nervous, he was scared, and his parents were out of town on business," says Jarvis.  She, too, had to talk to the Secret Service. "They asked me, didn’t I think that it was suspicious," she recalls. "I said no, it was a Bill of Rights project!" At the end of the meeting, they told her the incident "would be interpreted by the U.S. attorney, who would decide whether the student could be indicted," she says. The student was not indicted, and the Secret Service did not pursue the case further.  "I blame Wal-Mart more than anybody," she says.  "I was really disgusted with them.  But everyone was using poor judgment, from Wal-Mart up to the Secret Service." Jarvis uses one word to describe the whole incident: "ridiculous."

Response:

No – the Republican motto is "We’ve got all the rights we need". Mr Soul

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From the GREAT STATE OF MAINE… >Wal-Mart: "Always low prices…und vee are vatching you and your >troublemaking vays veeeery carefully!" >Selina Jarvis is the chair of the social studies department at >Currituck County High School in North Carolina, and she is not used to >having the Secret Service question her or one of her students. >But that’s what happened on September 20. >Jarvis had assigned her senior civics and economics class "to take >photographs to illustrate their rights in the Bill of Rights," she >says.  One student "had taken a photo of George Bush out of a magazine >and tacked the picture to a wall with a red thumb tack through his >head.  Then he made a thumb’s down sign with his own hand next to the >President’s picture, and he had a photo taken of that, and he pasted it >on a poster." >According to Jarvis, the student, who remains anonymous, was just doing >his assignment, illustrating the right to dissent. >But over at the Kitty Hawk Wal-Mart, where the student took his film to >be developed, this right is evidently suspect.  An employee in that >Wal-Mart photo department called the Kitty Hawk police on the student. >And the Kitty Hawk police turned the matter over to the Secret Service. >On Tuesday, September 20, the Secret Service came to Currituck High. >"At 1:35, the student came to me and told me that the Secret Service >had taken his poster," Jarvis says.  "I didn’t believe him at first. >But they had come into my room when I wasn’t there and had taken his >poster, which was in a stack with all the others."  She says the >student was upset. >"He was nervous, he was scared, and his parents were out of town on >business," says Jarvis.  She, too, had to talk to the Secret Service. >"They asked me, didn’t I think that it was suspicious," she recalls. >"I said no, it was a Bill of Rights project!" >At the end of the meeting, they told her the incident "would be >interpreted by the U.S. attorney, who would decide whether the student >could be indicted," she says. >The student was not indicted, and the Secret Service did not pursue the >case further.  "I blame Wal-Mart more than anybody," she says.  "I was >really disgusted with them.  But everyone was using poor judgment, from >Wal-Mart up to the Secret Service." >Jarvis uses one word to describe the whole incident: "ridiculous."

"Welcome my son, welcome to the machine" Roger Waters Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

>"The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and >guarantees:

They guarantee NAMBLA. That’s all I need to know, scoundrel.

Response:

>And that’s exactly why I joined it. >Mr Soul >Real American

That’s exactly what your buddy Charles Jaynes said, too: BOSTON — The American Civil Liberties Union will represent a group that advocates sex between men and boys in a lawsuit brought by the family of a slain 10-year-old. The family of Jeffrey Curley of Cambridge said the North American Man/Boy Love Association and its website which is now offline incited the attempted molestation and murder of the boy on Oct. 1, 1997. One of two men convicted in the killing, Charles Jaynes, 25, reportedly viewed the group’s website shortly before the killing, and also had in his possession some of NAMBLA’s publications. Also convicted in the killing was 24-year-old Salvatore Sicari. The ACLU said the case, filed in federal court in mid-May, involves issues of freedom of speech and association. "For us, it is a fundamental First Amendment case," John Roberts, executive director of the Massachusetts branch of the ACLU, told Boston Globe Wednesday. "It has to do with communications on a website, and material that does not promote any kind of criminal behavior whatsoever." ACLU officials said NAMBLA members deny encouraging coercion, rape or violence. Attorney Lawrence Frisoli, who represents the Curleys, said he is glad the ACLU is defending NAMBLA, because he has had trouble locating the group’s members. Harvey Silverglate, an ACLU board member, said Wednesday that the group’s attorneys will try to block any attempt by the Curleys to get NAMBLA’s membership lists, or other materials identifying members. The ACLU also will act as a surrogate for NAMBLA, allowing its members to defend themselves in court while remaining anonymous.According to the Globe, NAMBLA officials in the past have said their main goal is the abolition of age-of-consent laws that classify sex with children as rape. At two separate trials last year, prosecutors said Jaynes and Sicari were sexually obsessed with the boy, lured him from his Cambridge neighborhood with the promise of a new bike, and then smothered him with a gasoline-soaked rag when he resisted their sexual advances. They then stuffed him into a concrete-filled container and dumped it into a Maine river. Sicari, convicted of first-degree murder, is serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. Jaynes’ second-degree murder and kidnapping convictions enable him to seek parole in 23 years. The Curleys last week were awarded $328 million by a superior court jury in a civil suit against Jaynes and Sicari.

Response:

> "The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and > guarantees: >     * Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and > assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the > strict separation of church and state. >     * Your right to equal protection under the law – equal treatment > regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin. >     * Your right to due process – fair treatment by the government > whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake. >     * Your right to privacy – freedom from unwarranted government > intrusion into your personal and private affairs."

I think the ACLU serves a purpose that, from case to case, tends toward defending ‘unpopular’ applications of Constitutional law. I do like many of the stands the ACLU has taken toward this end, though I may disagree with the particulars of a case. However, the ACLU has become politicized, and an excellent example of that is their interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.  They, like Pixie, state as their position, somewhat conveniently and disingenuously, that the 2nd Amendment is a right of the ‘collective’. It is not…it is an example of how they are politicized. If they were apolitical, they would interpret the 2nd Amendment properly…but they are not apolitical. Apparently, defending ‘unpopular’ views is OK as long as they are not ‘unpopular’ among their leftist contributors.

Response:

> Left out the "2nd amendment there citizen!!!!

"The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons, nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration."

Response:

> >"The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and >guarantees: > They guarantee NAMBLA.

"In representing NAMBLA, the ACLU does not advocate sexual relationships between adults and children. What we do advocate is robust freedom of speech. This lawsuit strikes at the heart of freedom of speech. The defense of freedom of speech is most critical when the message is one most people find repulsive."

Response:

> The ACLU said the case, filed in federal court in mid-May, involves > issues of freedom of speech and association. > "For us, it is a fundamental First Amendment case," John Roberts, > executive director of the Massachusetts branch of the ACLU, told > Boston Globe Wednesday. "It has to do with communications on a > website, and material that does not promote any kind of criminal > behavior whatsoever."

"In representing NAMBLA, the ACLU does not advocate sexual relationships between adults and children. What we do advocate is robust freedom of speech. This lawsuit strikes at the heart of freedom of speech. The defense of freedom of speech is most critical when the message is one most people find repulsive."

Response:

> the 2nd Amendment is a right of the ‘collective’

It is.

Response:

>>the 2nd Amendment is a right of the ‘collective’ > It is.

That is your opinion, because you are a Socialist/Communist…that is, until it’s *your* ox being gored.  I’ve dealt with your type before.  You are a hypocrite, and an opportunist…I’m not saying anything that folks here don’t know already.  It’s obvious. Oh well, your vote in national elections means absolutely nothing. So, the system works. Now waddle out to that cornfield like a good little boy and scare away them crows.

Response:

> before.  You are a hypocrite, and an opportunist…

sounds like a description of Tom Delay, Karl Rove, Frist and our east coast cowboy GW.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>the 2nd Amendment is a right of the ‘collective’ > It is. > That is your opinion, because you are a Socialist/Communist…that > is, until it’s *your* ox being gored.  I’ve dealt with your type > before.  You are a hypocrite, and an opportunist…I’m not saying > anything that folks here don’t know already.  It’s obvious.

What a surprise.  You can’t provide an argument, so you just ascribe the title "Communist" to the guy with whom you disagree.  How typical.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The ACLU said the case, filed in federal court in mid-May, involves > issues of freedom of speech and association. > "For us, it is a fundamental First Amendment case," John Roberts, > executive director of the Massachusetts branch of the ACLU, told > Boston Globe Wednesday. "It has to do with communications on a > website, and material that does not promote any kind of criminal > behavior whatsoever." >"In representing NAMBLA, the ACLU does not advocate sexual relationships >between adults and children. What we do advocate is robust freedom of >speech. This lawsuit strikes at the heart of freedom of speech. The >defense of freedom of speech is most critical when the message is one >most people find repulsive."

Wow, the ACLU really is a twisted and sick group.

Response:

>> >"The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and > >guarantees: > They guarantee NAMBLA. >"In representing NAMBLA, the ACLU does not advocate sexual relationships >between adults and children. What we do advocate is robust freedom of >speech. This lawsuit strikes at the heart of freedom of speech. The >defense of freedom of speech is most critical when the message is one >most people find repulsive."

Yeh, you posted that before and it’s still sickening they support NAMBLA in doing what they do.

Response:

Bunch of useless slimeballs. LV

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Bunch of useless slimeballs. > LV

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courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>the 2nd Amendment is a right of the ‘collective’ > > It is. > That is your opinion, because you are a Socialist/Communist…that > is, until it’s *your* ox being gored.  I’ve dealt with your type > before.  You are a hypocrite, and an opportunist…I’m not saying > anything that folks here don’t know already.  It’s obvious. >What a surprise.  You can’t provide an argument, so you just ascribe >the title "Communist" to the guy with whom you disagree.  How typical.

To be expected from LV’s little army of floaters. ;^) Ken Wilson "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

> Left out the "2nd amendment there citizen!!!! > "The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe > the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals > to own guns or other weapons, nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation > of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration."

The Bill Of Rights "IS" the Peoples Rights. You can’t be neutral on "ANY" of them. And be credible. The argument this Right somehow is about militia<< meaning Government Sponsored, National Guard, etc. DOES NOT APPLY!!!!! THE BILL OF RIGHTS IS THE PEOPLE’S RIGHTS! Even a quick read of the Federalist Papers gives the "INTENT" of the 2nd. Also, the Anti Federalist Papers. If the framers ever envisioned "CITIZENS" of America, "NOT" not defending themselves, they would have used better language. The "Right" to bear arms was a "Given". Trying to say it was "militia" don’t hold water. At the time, all able body men "Were" the militia. I forget the age spread. I’m sure someone can post it. While I don’t particularly agree with the thoughts that even an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile is a ‘Right" to own. Think about Little League Baseball games, soccer, etc. Scary thought. Framers of the Constitution brought their own cannon to the fight. I really find it amusing when people get bent out of shape over gun issues. Hell, if you can pass a background check & pay the "tax", you can have all kinds of fully automatic weapons, tanks, etc. Get a FFL license for whatever firearm you want, pay  the fee "tax", pass the background check. Why would anybody want someone that couldn’t pass a background check to have that kind of firepower. We won’t see gun confiscation in my life time. I figure I got maybe 22 to 25 years left. The U.N. folks say they will get them 1 class of guns at a time. So if groups like the aclu, won’t protect the 2nd Amendment, it shows that socialism is alive & well. Neutral???? Whos on the other side????  You just stated the policy of the aclu on the 2nd. " Does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons, nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership" I won’t even go in to all the other "problems" with aclu. But hey allot of people have died so you can do as you please. How many of you have served your country??? Besides filing law suits. My amp is warmed up, got to git. Texas Blue

Response:

> I really find it amusing when people get bent out of shape over gun issues.

Then you must be laughing at yourself a lot these days.

Response:

Question:

"Tim Russert of Meet The Press, summed up the situation prevailing before the war, saying, "

Question:

Moonbat (noun): 1. usually offensive: a term used by neoliberals and neoconservatives to disparage progressives, traditional liberals, peace protestors and other ideological opponents. Moonbats (website): 1. A website dedicated to exposing and combating the lies and distortions of the right through informed commentary and analysis, and to providing sane and humane alternatives. http://moonbats.net/

Response:

Ah, *another* online missionary, out to change the world one Usenet post at a time.  Where do they come from, right or left, that they think their digital graffiti is going to persuade anyone anywhere to change their mind? Sad little attention vampires….

Response:

>Ah, *another* online missionary, out to change the world one Usenet post at >a time.  Where do they come from, right or left, that they think their >digital graffiti is going to persuade anyone anywhere to change their mind? >Sad little attention vampires….

Another? :r nattering

Response:

> Ah, *another* online missionary, out to change the world one Usenet post at > a time.  Where do they come from, right or left, that they think their > digital graffiti is going to persuade anyone anywhere to change their mind? > Sad little attention vampires….

vampires are only one kind of bat. but you can see from from this list of behavior and communication descriptions that bats and humans are quite similar. http://www.batworld.org/miscellaneous/batbehavior.html

Response:

courageously avow: > Ah, *another* online missionary, out to change the world one Usenet post at > a time.  Where do they come from, right or left, that they think their > digital graffiti is going to persuade anyone anywhere to change their mind? > Sad little attention vampires…. >vampires are only one kind of bat. >but you can see from >from this list of behavior and communication descriptions that bats and >humans are quite similar. >http://www.batworld.org/miscellaneous/batbehavior.html

I don’t know.  Do bats eat their young? Ken Wilson Amer. Dlx. Tele, Gary Moore LP, LP DC Classic w/P90s, Jeff Beck Strat, Morgan OM Acoustic, Rick 360/12, Std. Strat (MIM), Mesa 100 Nomad, Mesa F-30 "Goodnight Andre Jute, wherever you are.  Jesus loves you."

Response:

> Another?

Sometimes it’s hard to tell the socks from the grubby fingers inside.

Response:

>> Another? >Sometimes it’s hard to tell the socks from the grubby fingers inside.

Takes them longer to get their hand in their socks,  than it takes me to killfile them. Pete — Oh look, the exploding circus is coming to town. One night only. –Brak’s Dad

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when it’s 101 degrees fahrenheit like it was yesterday (on account of no global warming) I don’t wear socks.

Response:

> Takes them longer to get their hand in their socks,  than it takes me > to killfile them. > Pete

I’ve let the killfile slip lately, it seemed to less needed for awhile, but a fresh crop of trolls and socks is here for sure, time to tune up the crap filter.

Response:

>> Takes them longer to get their hand in their socks,  than it takes me > to killfile them. > Pete >I’ve let the killfile slip lately, it seemed to less needed for awhile, but >a fresh crop of trolls and socks is here for sure, time to tune up the crap >filter.

Katrina stirred things up a bit, which like everything else on this planet seems to be GWB’s fault. Pete — Oh look, the exploding circus is coming to town. One night only. –Brak’s Dad

Response:

> Katrina stirred things up a bit, which like everything else on this > planet seems to be GWB’s fault. > Pete

I have my share of concerns about the man’s policies, but there is no doubt that for a certain segment of society the announcement that GWB had discovered a cure for cancer would be met with screams of outrage that he hadn’t cured heart disease….

Response:

>> Katrina stirred things up a bit, which like everything else on this > planet seems to be GWB’s fault. > Pete >I have my share of concerns about the man’s policies, but there is no doubt >that for a certain segment of society the announcement that GWB had >discovered a cure for cancer would be met with screams of outrage that he >hadn’t cured heart disease….

He’s the President of the United States (of America, that is), so he should have done *both* those things already.  And don’t give me any of that bullshit about how none of the *other* presidents did those things!!! Pete — Oh look, the exploding circus is coming to town. One night only. –Brak’s Dad

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Takes them longer to get their hand in their socks,  than it takes me >to killfile them. >Pete > I’ve let the killfile slip lately, it seemed to less needed for awhile, but > a fresh crop of trolls and socks is here for sure, time to tune up the crap > filter.

The Absolute Beginner’s Guide to Usenet Absolute Beginner’s Frequently Asked Questions 11. What is a Killfile?? A set of instructions to your newsreader setting conditions for messages not to be retrieved or to be marked read so that they are easier to ignore. command you use to do this will vary according to which newsreader you’re using. The most useful function for a kill rule is to allow you not waste time in retrieving any more articles in a thread which is no longer of interest to you. Killfiling an individual means that you do not think that they have anything to say which you consider worth the effort of reading. If someone wants to publically announce that they have killfiled someone else, they might do this by writing <PLONK>, to indicate the sound of something being thrown into a dark corner. Killfiling is therefore occasionally called "plonking". But someone told me they’d ‘plonked’ me then they replied to a later message I posted. How could they have read my post if they’d killfiled me? Sometimes people will say they’ve killfiled someone but their vanity will not allow them to actually do so in case they miss something the victim might say about them. Saying you’ve killfiled someone then making further replies could be an indication that you may be heading in the direction of fuckwittedness. If you say you’ve killfiled someone, then killfile them. Otherwise it is simply meaningless posturing and will make you look like an idiot. My software doesn’t seem to have the ability to set killfiles Then either get one which does or just manually skip over messages which are from someone you’d rather ignore or threads you don’t want to read. http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_kill.html

Response:

> > Katrina stirred things up a bit, which like everything else on this > planet seems to be GWB’s fault. > Pete > I have my share of concerns about the man’s policies, but there is no doubt > that for a certain segment of society the announcement that GWB had > discovered a cure for cancer would be met with screams of outrage that he > hadn’t cured heart disease….

Heh, I agree. — Barbara Schwarz is a known Usenet WACKO http://www.ahbl.org/notices/barbschwarz.php Her picture http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/barbara_schwarz_files/8d.jpg

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Katrina stirred things up a bit, which like everything else on this > > planet seems to be GWB’s fault. > > Pete > I have my share of concerns about the man’s policies, but there is no doubt > that for a certain segment of society the announcement that GWB had > discovered a cure for cancer would be met with screams of outrage that he > hadn’t cured heart disease…. > Heh, I agree. > —

That libeling AHBL website is of convicted felon Brian J. Bruns, and he is also a liar. Google is name. Read also about NANAE punk, whacko and stalker "Kevin" who stalks just as John Stilwell here: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/6126c8a7b…

Response:

> Read also about NANAE punk, whacko and stalker "Kevin" who stalks just > as John > Stilwell here: > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/msg/6126c8a7b…

Ahhaha is that you Barbara Schwarz? And no, my name isn’t Stilwell.

Response:

Question:

I’ll stick my neck out alittle bit here but I’ve been listening to the Senate confirmation hearing on Judge Roberts & he sounds OK to me. Mr Soul

Response:

He isn’t saying anything… so how can you judge him?  And why won’t they release his track record?

Response:

> I’ll stick my neck out alittle bit here but I’ve been listening to the > Senate confirmation hearing on Judge Roberts & he sounds OK to me. > Mr Soul

two things occur to me 1. Is that Bush might screw the fundamentalists. He is a party boy after all. 2. Is that we don’t know what they’re hiding. Anyway he started out defending privacy. So hopefully that means the Feds will stay out of our bedrooms – this will make the fundys very unhappy.

Response:

Like I said, I’m sticking my neck out.  It’s a gut feeling I have from listening to him that he’s fair & clear-headed. He has commented on somethings.  He seemed to agree with Kennedy that Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, that  school segregation law was unconstitutional? Robert’s is definitely a conservative but I have a good feeling about him.  I could be wrong however, because as you point out, we don’t know much about him. Mr Soul

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Exactly – Robert’s did seem to defend privacy. Mr Soul

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courageously avow: >He isn’t saying anything… so how can you judge him?  And why won’t >they release his track record?

Hmm, because his track record isn’t relevant? As a lawyer, he argued what his client told him to argue.  As a judge he decided on the basis of the best argument from two opposing factions, declaring one the winner.  What else is he to do? Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, and the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

>I’ll stick my neck out alittle bit here but I’ve been listening to the >Senate confirmation hearing on Judge Roberts & he sounds OK to me. >Mr Soul

A) Roberts is a very accomplished lawyer. B)He has worked very hard to sound OK in spite of the fact that much of what he has written is not OK with regard to human rights and abortion. C) He is firmly entrenched in the government so therefore chances are that he is bullshitting. Good people generally don’t stay in government   that long because they can’t take the bullshitting.  After all, has it not been the job of government in recent history to bullshit the populace into accepting outrageously bad ideas as good ones? I rest my case…. Tubeguru

Response:

>Exactly – Robert’s did seem to defend privacy. >Mr Soul

Privacy is a double edged sword. Don’t forget that corporations have   the same rights a individuals…. At the risk of sounding Jingoistic let me ask you: Has the Chimp done anything right so far? TG

Response:

> has it > not been the job of government in recent history to bullshit the > populace into accepting outrageously bad ideas as good ones?

No, you’re thinking of the press. it hasn’t worked too well, though – Kerry went down instead of Bush. Little Tommy Daschle went down instead of Bush. Saddam went down instead of Bush. That Wilson guy went down instead of Bush. Dan Rather went down instead of Bush. The 9/11 commission went down instead of Bush. Cindy Sheehan went down instead, well, you get the picture. Lars – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I rest my case…. > Tubeguru

Response:

I did find it interesting how the Republican Senators were complimenting him because of his great law creditials & the pretigous firm that he worked for.  In other situations, the right-wing scorns lawyers – remember what they did to trial lawyers (Edwards), etc. He didn’t answer Biden or Feinstein very well. Mr Soul

Response:

> That Wilson guy went down instead of Bush.

The jury is still out on this one. Mr Soul

Response:

HIs track record isn’t relevant???  WTF, this guy is going to get the ONLY job in government that is a guaranteed lifetime appointment, and we shouldn’t look into his past?

Response:

All I hear is how he’s such a good candidate…  He may well be, but there are too many unknowns with this guy, especially for him to be the new Chief Justice.  He’s damn good at dodging questions, I’ll give him that, and it makes me nervous. He doesn’t have a long paper trail as a judge, and his stances on some very basic constitutional issues are murky because he just won’t answer questions about them.  He says some vague things about his legal philosophies but none of that has any substance to it– it feels like he’s hiding something.  The media and congressmen tell us he’s such a great person and family man, but that doesn’t matter to me much.  It’s not about whether he leans to the right or the left, either: I want to know how this guy interprets the constitution.  The Bush Administration’s track record of appointing hacks and cronies in other top jobs does not have me feeling optimistic. If he protects civil liberties and privacy rights I’ll be happy, but some doubt that he even believes in a right to privacy, and I’m certain he’s going to stand with Bush as more parts of the Patriot Act come up for review. Still, Roberts is a distinguished, qualified legal professional, with sufficient credentials for the job.  If only he’d give some straight answers… Jeremy

Response:

The fact that Roberts wife is a feminist against abortion is oxymoron. and suspect. I did like his advice to Reagan on not giving celebrities from Michael Jackson to John Wayne congressional medals. I could live with a very strict conservative constitutionalist of the old school but I couldn’t take a religious wacko. I’m not sure what he really is yet. Tubegurus point about corporations as individuals is well taken (AS THEY SAY). I wonder if Roberts would be for dechartering naughty corporations? found this note: He let slip a key issue for right-wingers.  Notice he said that the Constitution prohibits establishment of "a" religion.  The normal, English way to thing to say such a thing would be to discuss "establishment of regligion."  He added the "a" for good reason (in his mind). It is a key tenet of "religious" right wingers that the establishment clause does not preclude promotion of religion generally, just selection of one religion over another as the official religion of the US.  (e.g. Catholicism over Protestantism). Thus, Roberts would be against recent cases like the decision prohibiting general scholoraship money going to a student who chooses a religious major.  The government (supposedly) would not be establishing "a" religion, just promoting religion generally. I would say we know nothing about him but since Bush is generally untrustworthy, he might have sold out the religious right to some other interest. Of course it could just be that Roberts is just a blue eyed devil. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > All I hear is how he’s such a good candidate…  He may well be, but > there are too many unknowns with this guy, especially for him to be the > new Chief Justice.  He’s damn good at dodging questions, I’ll give him > that, and it makes me nervous. > He doesn’t have a long paper trail as a judge, and his stances on some > very basic constitutional issues are murky because he just won’t answer > questions about them.  He says some vague things about his legal > philosophies but none of that has any substance to it– it feels like > he’s hiding something.  The media and congressmen tell us he’s such a > great person and family man, but that doesn’t matter to me much.  It’s > not about whether he leans to the right or the left, either: I want to > know how this guy interprets the constitution.  The Bush > Administration’s track record of appointing hacks and cronies in other > top jobs does not have me feeling optimistic. > If he protects civil liberties and privacy rights I’ll be happy, but > some doubt that he even believes in a right to privacy, and I’m certain > he’s going to stand with Bush as more parts of the Patriot Act come up > for review. > Still, Roberts is a distinguished, qualified legal professional, with > sufficient credentials for the job.  If only he’d give some straight > answers… > Jeremy

Response:

By the way, when I say Robert’s is OK, it’s in the context of I know he’s a right-winger, conservative & that Bush could have picked someone alot worse (I think), and that we (Democrat’s) really can’t stop him. Mr Soul

Response:

http://www.feministsforlife.org/news/jsroberts.htm

Response:

I don’t think Bush could have really gotten away with picking someone far more reactionary.  There is a tipping point about judges, because of the whole "appointed for life" thing, where moderate Republicans would have defected if Bush wanted to throw someone like, say, Roy Moore from Alabama, out there.  As arrogant as Bush is, he’s very good at playing politics and realized that he still had to work with the handful of moderate Republicans left in the Senate this time.  That’s why we got Roberts, and it’s probably why Roberts isn’t talking much. He strikes me as a "stealth" nominee who I’m afraid will turn out to be more authoritarian (which is *not* the same as "conservative") than Scalia. There is also the possibility with Roberts that he’s being quiet about a lot of things because he doesn’t want to cause an uproar among Bush’s Fundamentalist and Conservative bases.  That work he did in support of a gay rights’ case almost blew up in his face. I’m curious to see who he picks as his second appointment.  It’s been hinted that he’s looking for a female or Hispanic version of Roberts, but I don’t know that he’ll find a person like that.  Especially with the fallout of Katrina shooting his "political capital" straight to hell. Jeremy

Response:

> He isn’t saying anything… so how can you judge him?  And why won’t > they release his track record?

They have released his "track record". The only items that were releases were some memo’s from when he worked for the US Solicitors General office, and previous Solicitor Generals, both Democrat, and Repub have gone on record saying that those should  not be released. See ya, John

Response:

I hope he picks Gonzales – that will piss off some right-wingers Mr Soul

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->has it >not been the job of government in recent history to bullshit the >populace into accepting outrageously bad ideas as good ones? >No, you’re thinking of the press. it hasn’t worked too well, though – >Kerry went down instead of Bush. Little Tommy Daschle went down instead >of Bush. Saddam went down instead of Bush. That Wilson guy went down >instead of Bush. Dan Rather went down instead of Bush. The 9/11 >commission went down instead of Bush. Cindy Sheehan went down instead, >well, you get the picture. >Lars >I rest my case…. >Tubeguru

As is typical, you view things competitively as opposed to cooperatively. Government is a cooperative enterprise. Which explains why your boys have won so often but acomplished so little…. TG

Response:

did courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>has it >>not been the job of government in recent history to bullshit the >>populace into accepting outrageously bad ideas as good ones? >No, you’re thinking of the press. it hasn’t worked too well, though – >Kerry went down instead of Bush. Little Tommy Daschle went down instead >of Bush. Saddam went down instead of Bush. That Wilson guy went down >instead of Bush. Dan Rather went down instead of Bush. The 9/11 >commission went down instead of Bush. Cindy Sheehan went down instead, >well, you get the picture. >Lars >>I rest my case…. >>Tubeguru >As is typical, you view things competitively as opposed to >cooperatively. Government is a cooperative enterprise. Which explains >why your boys have won so often but acomplished so little…. >TG

Our Conservatives up here are tarred with the same brush.  Fortunately they seldom get the opportunity to govern. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, and the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

Response:

And he has spent very little time as a judge, yet he’s immediately getting the cheif justice slot!  Amazing.

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great point.

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