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Question:

What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of skinheads? Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line legally barred from releasing such demographic information. My wife works with a woman who just returned from a Carnival Cruise (shut up Paul) that was almost exclusively booked with folks her husband does not like. She was told by her agent that there was no way of knowing this. Is that true?

Response:

> What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. > If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent > know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of > skinheads? Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked > by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line > legally barred from releasing such demographic information. My wife works > with a woman who just returned from a Carnival Cruise (shut up Paul) that > was almost exclusively booked with folks her husband does not like. She was > told by her agent that there was no way of knowing this. Is that true?

We kind of discussed this a few weeks ago (I think it was on rtc…might have been on rec.arts.disney.parks). A rtc participant gave a review of a Disney ship, on which a large group of mentally and physically handicapped kids were also passengers. This poster didn’t have any predjudices or bias agians folks with disabilities, but just found the constant sight of these less fortunate kids to be quite a downer on the cruise. I think the consensus is that it would be great if we could find out if a large block of passengers (a number that would significantly affect the mood of the ship), were booked on a cruise we were interested in taking, but the that the cruiselines wouldn’t share this info, because they’d never be able to book the rest of the ship. We tried to remove the "specifics" of the potential group, so as not to offend any particular segment of society. I forget the exact title of the thread…could have been "disney cruise from hell" or something. Do a deja search and see if anything turns up. Lee (also wouldn’t be too comfortable with 750 skinheads on the same ship as me, but tends to keep to herself on big cruise ships anyway).

Response:

> I forget the exact title of the thread…could have been "disney cruise > from hell" or something. Do a deja search and see if anything turns up.

That thread was here on RTC and was called Disney Hospital Ship, or something close to that. sue

Response:

> Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked >by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line >legally barred from releasing such demographic information.

Hi Jerome, There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very confidential for competitive reasons.  Groups tend to book over and over and the cruise lines do not want other cruise lines to find out about "their" groups. Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Response:

> What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. > If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent > know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of > skinheads?

1) Cruise lines never give out information about the demographics of any group or sailing. 2) Cruise lines seldom know about the demographics of any group or sailing. They do not ask any questions about race or religion.  They may ask if the group is an "affinity" group vs. a promotional group, but they do not ask what kind of affinity group it is. If 750 skinheads, gays, blacks, bankers, doctors, brick layers,  Baptists, pie bakers or candlestick makers want to book on the same cruise… unless the booking TA volunteers the information or the group has needs specific to their group, the cruise line really doesn’t care as long as the group meets the age criteria and has the money to pay. George in PA Countryside Travel www.countryside-travel.com Hell Freezes Over www.cruisemaster.com/voyager.htm Norway 2 www.cruisemaster.com/norway.

Response:

>> Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked >by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line >legally barred from releasing such demographic information. >Hi Jerome, >There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very >confidential for competitive reasons.  Groups tend to book over and >over and the cruise lines do not want other cruise lines to find out >about "their" groups.

This sounds like a good reason to use an experienced cruise specialist as one’s agent. Does not such an agent have a pretty good idea of when/where certain groups book? If not, why not? There must be many news groups and web sites one could check so as to find out when/where the "trips from Hell" are planned There would be no guarantee of avoidance, but a good agent should be able to improve the odds???…I hope. (shut up Paul) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Best regards, >Ray >LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL >800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 >http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Response:

>What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. >If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent >know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of >skinheads?

The cruise line in all probability would have no idea that this was a skinhead group — it could be a group of doctors for all they know. However, the cruise lines are not above trying to get some info on the group makeup when preparing a fare quote. I once had a Princess rep tell about a 500 passenger group of Baptists (if I remember right) booked on a seven day sailing. He said that if Princess had known the make-up of the group they would have charged a higher fare as the group produced about zero bar/casino revenue. The agent was right to keep the make-uip of the group under wraps to get his clients a better deal.

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There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very confidential for competitive reasons.<<      Not to mention that this is America where we value liberty, individual freedoms, nondiscrimination, equality, privacy, etc. (at least I sure hope we do, rather than merely paying lipservice to these ideals).      Somehow, I don’t think the makeup of a group booked on a cruise is subject to any freedom-of-information laws.  If anything, I should think privacy of personal information laws would be more appropros.     Arne

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I NEVER would have thought that the make-up of a single group would ruin a cruise for me.  But, then it happened on Paradise.  The ship was booked by an enormous group of elderly folks from a northeastern city.  These people complained loudly about everything.   They pushed their way to the front of every line (quite literally).   There were battles over seats in the showroom. One elderly "gentleman" laid across an entire row to save it and threatened to beat the sh*t out of the helpless Carnival employee who was explaining the seat-saving rules.  I’ve got pictures of two elderly men with their fists up in the showroom — fighting over seats!   Don’t know why they bothered going to the shows because they didn’t watch them.  They just complained during the entire show.  If there had just been a couple hundred of these people on the cruise, it wouldn’t have been so bad.   But they made up about 1/3 of the passengers. This cruise was miserable.   These people were rude, complained loudly, and never ever shut up.  There was no getting away from them or ignoring them. If there was any way to avoid a repeat of this sort of cruise I’d take it. Haven’t found any TA who was able to provide group info, though. Nina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very > confidential for competitive reasons.<< >      Not to mention that this is America where we value liberty, > individual freedoms, nondiscrimination, equality, privacy, etc. > (at least I sure hope we do, rather than merely paying lipservice > to these ideals). >      Somehow, I don’t think the makeup of a group booked on a cruise > is subject to any freedom-of-information laws.  If anything, I should think > privacy of personal information laws would be more appropros. >     Arne

Response:

Nina,    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from? one area is no worse or better than any other area. S’nd I

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>e for me.  But, then it happened on Paradise.  The ship was booked by >an enormous group of elderly folks from a northeastern city.

Hey I was on one of these it was on PRINCESS and it was terrible! If I heard SADIE SAVE MORE SEATS again i was going to SCREAM and then they fell asleep during the show! But honestly the cruise lines will nott ell yiu what groups are onboard. I know that AVON is having a convention ngoingto ALASKA this summer… and in Dec is the TILE players what is that game! some fund them annoying but I did not have a problem with them at all Susette Cruise Outlets and Travel 800 853 9515

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Nina,    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from?<<    And if a TA were to tell a potential cruiser about which groups were booked on a cruise, could we then also ask the full demographics of ALL cruisers on a particular cruise?  How many children, how many toddlers, how many infants, religious denominations, ethnic backgrounds, marital status and histories, age breakdowns, medical and psychiatric histories, etc. etc.???    For that matter, maybe airlines should advise us all this info for each potential flight we might book.  And what about resorts and hotels? Conventions?  Casinos?  Exhibitions?     I fear you posters wanting this "information" about an upcoming cruise are skating on very very thin (not to mention extremely tacky) ice here. Where do you all propose to draw the line?     Arne

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Well, since the information’s not available, there’s no line to draw.  But, YES I would like to know how many rug rats are on a cruise.  I specifically cruise while school’s in session to avoid the little darlings.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Nina, >    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from?<< >    And if a TA were to tell a potential cruiser about which groups were booked > on a cruise, could we then also ask the full demographics of ALL > cruisers on a particular cruise?  How many children, how many toddlers, > how many infants, religious denominations, ethnic backgrounds, marital status > and histories, age breakdowns, medical and psychiatric histories, etc. etc.??? >    For that matter, maybe airlines should advise us all this info for each > potential flight we might book.  And what about resorts and hotels? > Conventions?  Casinos?  Exhibitions? >     I fear you posters wanting this "information" about an upcoming cruise are > skating on very very thin (not to mention extremely tacky) ice here. > Where do you all propose to draw the line? >     Arne

Response:

> This sounds like a good reason to use an experienced cruise specialist as one’s > agent. Does not such an agent have a pretty good idea of when/where certain > groups book?

How would an experienced cruise specialist get this info? I think we’ve pretty much established that this kind of info is not easy to come by. Lee

Response:

> Nina, >    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from?<< >    And if a TA were to tell a potential cruiser about which groups were booked > on a cruise, could we then also ask the full demographics of ALL > cruisers on a particular cruise?  How many children, how many toddlers, > how many infants, religious denominations, ethnic backgrounds, marital status > and histories, age breakdowns, medical and psychiatric histories, etc. etc.???

In some cases, and purely for positive reasons, a general idea of the demographic would be helpful for some. Let’s say a group of single women are looking for a cruise where there might be some single men? They’re deciding between two ships. Ship #1, they find out, has 500 seniors booked, the rest are young families. Ship #2 has some seniors, some families, and many, many singles. So, they pick cruise #2. It’s not that they have any predjudices against the elderly or families with young kids, it’s just that they prefer to spend their precious vacation time and money in an environment that more closely suits them. They don’t know ethnicity of fellow passengers, or religious affiliations, nor do they know their medical histories. What they would know, is that there’s a greater potential for a full disco for late night dancing and partying. >    For that matter, maybe airlines should advise us all this info for each > potential flight we might book.  

Flights are not the vacation. Your logic doesn’t apply. >And what about resorts and hotels?

Many resorts will only allow couples – singles and families may not stay. Many resorts are geared for families – singles are not particularly welcome. > Conventions?  

If you attend a convention, obviously, you know who the other conventioneers will be – not personally, but they will be attending for the same business or personal interest. Ages, marital status have no meaning if you attend a Trekkie convention, just that you’re a Trekkie, as well. >Casinos?

Perhaps some people spend an entire vacation in a casino, but usually not. It’s a component of a vacation, not the whole vacation. The common ground here, is that all in attendance enjoy gambling – age, marital status, physical health have no bearing on everyone’s enjoyment of the shared activity. > Exhibitions?

Like the Fancy Food Show at the Javits Center? Or the Gift show? Or the Stationery show? Again, the draw is the product being displayed – everyone in attendance is either interested in selling product or buying product. I don’t think a sales rep will care if a potential customer is black, white, green, purple, married, single, psychotic – if they’ve got money to spend on product, they’re welcome. >     I fear you posters wanting this "information" about an upcoming cruise are > skating on very very thin (not to mention extremely tacky) ice here. > Where do you all propose to draw the line? >     Arne

My niece and I were not able to book a cruise on Princess because they had reached their teen quota. So, it seems to me that the cruise lines may already be drawing the line, to a degree – they’re just not sharing the info with their passengers. Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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>Nina, >   Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from? >one area is no worse or better than any other area.

As a born, bred and nearly lifelong resident of the Northeast … My impressions are indeed that rudeness here is generally greater than other parts of the country … Maybe too fast paced for civility to overcome rudeness … Be seeing you In the Village Number 6

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Hi #6,   Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.? and no one part of the USA holds the award for the most rudest.Has met some of the rudest peope that hailed from all parts of the US but that doesnt make me think that all the people living within the bounderies of this country are rude. Just some more than ohers:-). S’nd I

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>Hi #6, >  Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be >ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in >particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.?

Put a dot in the center of Manhattan and draw a 50 mile radius … Maybe it’s the constant traffic and noise in much of that area … New Hampshire and Vermont though Northeast surely did not qualify … and PA and NJ away from NYC and Philly are also exempt … In general … in the South and Midwest … and West and Northwest … In my experiences were very low on rudeness meters … Be seeing you In the Village Number 6

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> >Hi #6, >  Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be >ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in >particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.? > Put a dot in the center of Manhattan and draw a 50 mile radius … Maybe it’s > the constant traffic and noise in much of that area … > New Hampshire and Vermont though Northeast surely did not qualify … and PA > and NJ away from NYC and Philly are also exempt … > In general … in the South and Midwest … and West and Northwest … In my > experiences were very low on rudeness meters …

I’m from that 50 mile NYC radius too – it’s where I grew up, and where I currently live (although I think my house is closer to 55 or 60 miles from NYC). I kind of have to agree that this area does APPEAR to have the rudest people in the country (I’ve travelled to most regions except the deep south), but rather than rudeness, I think it’s more a self-protecting big city thing. Don’t make eye contact with fellow subway riders, don’t talk to strangers, count your change, etc. Living in such a dense population center breeds more distrust because of the higher number of crimes, compared to more rural (and probably less affluent) areas. It’s not that New Yorkers are rude, it’s just that they’re not as forthcoming with warmth, I guess. There’s an edginess (not edgy as in nervous, but edgy as in sharp) to life in the NYC metro area, and that can be misconstrued as rudeness. Funny that you mention Vermont as not being included in the northeast rudeness circle. I lived in Vermont for many years, and I could definitely see how someone could find Vermonters (especially Souther Vermonters) to be rude. Talk about not effusively friendly. You ask for directions? Here’s a typical converstation: You: Can you tell me how to get to Brattleboro? Vermonter: Yup. You: Shoud I continue straight on this road? Vermonter: Nope. You: Should I make a left at the next junction? Vermonter: Yup. and so on, and so on, and so on. They’re not rude, really – just wary of strangers in their parts. I found that the folks in Alaska were the friendliest, most forthcoming and warm people I’ve ever met. I thought about it a lot during our trip this Summer, and I really believe that, with what they must endure in the Winter, with how few of them there are…they really can’t afford to p*** any of their neighbors and fellow townspeople off – you never know when you’ll need a tow out of a snow drift, or some other favor. Especially in a place like Fairbanks, where it really gets tough in the Winter, it’s got to make it easier to endure with the stronger sense of community I felt. Great people up there. Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Be seeing you > In the Village > Number 6

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Was the lady addressed by the name SADIE the official holder of seats?. Was there no one by the name of Tiffany, Brittney, Ashley, Courtney that were having their names screamed out.? Johngg S’nd I

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi #6, >  Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be >ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in >particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.? >Put a dot in the center of Manhattan and draw a 50 mile radius … Maybe it’s >the constant traffic and noise in much of that area … >New Hampshire and Vermont though Northeast surely did not qualify … and PA >and NJ away from NYC and Philly are also exempt … >In general … in the South and Midwest … and West and Northwest … In my >experiences were very low on rudeness meters … >Be seeing you >In the Village >Number 6

I’m from massachusetts and it’s no picnic here.  Actually I find New England to be less friendly than New York.  I can always break through that tough outer layer when in NY and once you do you can’t shut a New Yorker up.  New Englanders are tough through and through.  In many small cities and towns you will always be considered as an outsider if you are not a direct descendant of someone from the Mayflower and will have to be a third generation resident of a town before they will start considering one of them. Thumper

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> Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be > ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in > particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.?

Living in the Northeast I have observed that New Yorkers are ruder than others who live in the Northeast. Had the same experience on a cruise where a large group of senior New Yorkers were the rudist people I ever cruised with. Saw several New Yorker seniors almost come to blows. > and no one part of the USA holds the award for the most rudest.Has met > some of the rudest peope that hailed from all parts of the US but that > doesnt make me think that all the people living within the bounderies of > this country are rude. Just some more than ohers:-).

There are regional variations. People in the west, midwest and south are more polite than here in the northeast. In some of those areas they even give pedestians the right of way. — Charles

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In some cases, and purely for positive reasons, a general idea of the demographic would be helpful for some.<<    From the receiver’s end, but you still have not addressed my question about where to draw the line from the giving (of information) end.     Yes, my logic was exaggerated in regard to casinos, exhibits, etc. but if a vendor starts giving out demographics for "positive" reasons, are they then not subject to also release info. for possible negative reasons as well?       Arne

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Doesn’t Carnival have the infamous "Vacation Guarantee?" If they were that obnoxious, why didn’t you just exercise your right to get off the ship.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I NEVER would have thought that the make-up of a single group would ruin a > cruise for me.  But, then it happened on Paradise.  The ship was booked by > an enormous group of elderly folks from a northeastern city.  These people > complained loudly about everything.   They pushed their way to the front of > every line (quite literally).   There were battles over seats in the > showroom. One elderly "gentleman" laid across an entire row to save it and > threatened to beat the sh*t out of the helpless Carnival employee who was > explaining the seat-saving rules.  I’ve got pictures of two elderly men with > their fists up in the showroom — fighting over seats!   Don’t know why they > bothered going to the shows because they didn’t watch them.  They just > complained during the entire show.  If there had just been a couple hundred > of these people on the cruise, it wouldn’t have been so bad.   But they made > up about 1/3 of the passengers. > This cruise was miserable.   These people were rude, complained loudly, and > never ever shut up.  There was no getting away from them or ignoring them. > If there was any way to avoid a repeat of this sort of cruise I’d take it. > Haven’t found any TA who was able to provide group info, though. > Nina > There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very > confidential for competitive reasons.<< >      Not to mention that this is America where we value liberty, > individual freedoms, nondiscrimination, equality, privacy, etc. > (at least I sure hope we do, rather than merely paying lipservice > to these ideals). >      Somehow, I don’t think the makeup of a group booked on a cruise > is subject to any freedom-of-information laws.  If anything, I should > think > privacy of personal information laws would be more appropros. >     Arne

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What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of skinheads? Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line legally barred from releasing such demographic information. My wife works with a woman who just returned from a Carnival Cruise (shut up Paul) that was almost exclusively booked with folks her husband does not like. She was told by her agent that there was no way of knowing this. Is that true?

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> What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. > If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent > know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of > skinheads? Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked > by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line > legally barred from releasing such demographic information. My wife works > with a woman who just returned from a Carnival Cruise (shut up Paul) that > was almost exclusively booked with folks her husband does not like. She was > told by her agent that there was no way of knowing this. Is that true?

We kind of discussed this a few weeks ago (I think it was on rtc…might have been on rec.arts.disney.parks). A rtc participant gave a review of a Disney ship, on which a large group of mentally and physically handicapped kids were also passengers. This poster didn’t have any predjudices or bias agians folks with disabilities, but just found the constant sight of these less fortunate kids to be quite a downer on the cruise. I think the consensus is that it would be great if we could find out if a large block of passengers (a number that would significantly affect the mood of the ship), were booked on a cruise we were interested in taking, but the that the cruiselines wouldn’t share this info, because they’d never be able to book the rest of the ship. We tried to remove the "specifics" of the potential group, so as not to offend any particular segment of society. I forget the exact title of the thread…could have been "disney cruise from hell" or something. Do a deja search and see if anything turns up. Lee (also wouldn’t be too comfortable with 750 skinheads on the same ship as me, but tends to keep to herself on big cruise ships anyway).

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> I forget the exact title of the thread…could have been "disney cruise > from hell" or something. Do a deja search and see if anything turns up.

That thread was here on RTC and was called Disney Hospital Ship, or something close to that. sue

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> Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked >by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line >legally barred from releasing such demographic information.

Hi Jerome, There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very confidential for competitive reasons.  Groups tend to book over and over and the cruise lines do not want other cruise lines to find out about "their" groups. Best regards, Ray LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 http://www.lighthousetravel.com

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> What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. > If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent > know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of > skinheads?

1) Cruise lines never give out information about the demographics of any group or sailing. 2) Cruise lines seldom know about the demographics of any group or sailing. They do not ask any questions about race or religion.  They may ask if the group is an "affinity" group vs. a promotional group, but they do not ask what kind of affinity group it is. If 750 skinheads, gays, blacks, bankers, doctors, brick layers,  Baptists, pie bakers or candlestick makers want to book on the same cruise… unless the booking TA volunteers the information or the group has needs specific to their group, the cruise line really doesn’t care as long as the group meets the age criteria and has the money to pay. George in PA Countryside Travel www.countryside-travel.com Hell Freezes Over www.cruisemaster.com/voyager.htm Norway 2 www.cruisemaster.com/norway.

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>> Similarly, would an agent know if a cruise were heavily booked >by some group that could be anathema to the client? Or is the cruise line >legally barred from releasing such demographic information. >Hi Jerome, >There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very >confidential for competitive reasons.  Groups tend to book over and >over and the cruise lines do not want other cruise lines to find out >about "their" groups.

This sounds like a good reason to use an experienced cruise specialist as one’s agent. Does not such an agent have a pretty good idea of when/where certain groups book? If not, why not? There must be many news groups and web sites one could check so as to find out when/where the "trips from Hell" are planned There would be no guarantee of avoidance, but a good agent should be able to improve the odds???…I hope. (shut up Paul) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Best regards, >Ray >LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL >800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905 >http://www.lighthousetravel.com

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>What is an agent able to learn about the demographics of a cruise. >If 750 members of skinheads united have booked a cruise can the agent >know this and warn off a client who would be very unhappy with a load of >skinheads?

The cruise line in all probability would have no idea that this was a skinhead group — it could be a group of doctors for all they know. However, the cruise lines are not above trying to get some info on the group makeup when preparing a fare quote. I once had a Princess rep tell about a 500 passenger group of Baptists (if I remember right) booked on a seven day sailing. He said that if Princess had known the make-up of the group they would have charged a higher fare as the group produced about zero bar/casino revenue. The agent was right to keep the make-uip of the group under wraps to get his clients a better deal.

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There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very confidential for competitive reasons.<<      Not to mention that this is America where we value liberty, individual freedoms, nondiscrimination, equality, privacy, etc. (at least I sure hope we do, rather than merely paying lipservice to these ideals).      Somehow, I don’t think the makeup of a group booked on a cruise is subject to any freedom-of-information laws.  If anything, I should think privacy of personal information laws would be more appropros.     Arne

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I NEVER would have thought that the make-up of a single group would ruin a cruise for me.  But, then it happened on Paradise.  The ship was booked by an enormous group of elderly folks from a northeastern city.  These people complained loudly about everything.   They pushed their way to the front of every line (quite literally).   There were battles over seats in the showroom. One elderly "gentleman" laid across an entire row to save it and threatened to beat the sh*t out of the helpless Carnival employee who was explaining the seat-saving rules.  I’ve got pictures of two elderly men with their fists up in the showroom — fighting over seats!   Don’t know why they bothered going to the shows because they didn’t watch them.  They just complained during the entire show.  If there had just been a couple hundred of these people on the cruise, it wouldn’t have been so bad.   But they made up about 1/3 of the passengers. This cruise was miserable.   These people were rude, complained loudly, and never ever shut up.  There was no getting away from them or ignoring them. If there was any way to avoid a repeat of this sort of cruise I’d take it. Haven’t found any TA who was able to provide group info, though. Nina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very > confidential for competitive reasons.<< >      Not to mention that this is America where we value liberty, > individual freedoms, nondiscrimination, equality, privacy, etc. > (at least I sure hope we do, rather than merely paying lipservice > to these ideals). >      Somehow, I don’t think the makeup of a group booked on a cruise > is subject to any freedom-of-information laws.  If anything, I should think > privacy of personal information laws would be more appropros. >     Arne

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Nina,    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from? one area is no worse or better than any other area. S’nd I

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>e for me.  But, then it happened on Paradise.  The ship was booked by >an enormous group of elderly folks from a northeastern city.

Hey I was on one of these it was on PRINCESS and it was terrible! If I heard SADIE SAVE MORE SEATS again i was going to SCREAM and then they fell asleep during the show! But honestly the cruise lines will nott ell yiu what groups are onboard. I know that AVON is having a convention ngoingto ALASKA this summer… and in Dec is the TILE players what is that game! some fund them annoying but I did not have a problem with them at all Susette Cruise Outlets and Travel 800 853 9515

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Nina,    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from?<<    And if a TA were to tell a potential cruiser about which groups were booked on a cruise, could we then also ask the full demographics of ALL cruisers on a particular cruise?  How many children, how many toddlers, how many infants, religious denominations, ethnic backgrounds, marital status and histories, age breakdowns, medical and psychiatric histories, etc. etc.???    For that matter, maybe airlines should advise us all this info for each potential flight we might book.  And what about resorts and hotels? Conventions?  Casinos?  Exhibitions?     I fear you posters wanting this "information" about an upcoming cruise are skating on very very thin (not to mention extremely tacky) ice here. Where do you all propose to draw the line?     Arne

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Well, since the information’s not available, there’s no line to draw.  But, YES I would like to know how many rug rats are on a cruise.  I specifically cruise while school’s in session to avoid the little darlings.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Nina, >    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from?<< >    And if a TA were to tell a potential cruiser about which groups were booked > on a cruise, could we then also ask the full demographics of ALL > cruisers on a particular cruise?  How many children, how many toddlers, > how many infants, religious denominations, ethnic backgrounds, marital status > and histories, age breakdowns, medical and psychiatric histories, etc. etc.??? >    For that matter, maybe airlines should advise us all this info for each > potential flight we might book.  And what about resorts and hotels? > Conventions?  Casinos?  Exhibitions? >     I fear you posters wanting this "information" about an upcoming cruise are > skating on very very thin (not to mention extremely tacky) ice here. > Where do you all propose to draw the line? >     Arne

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> This sounds like a good reason to use an experienced cruise specialist as one’s > agent. Does not such an agent have a pretty good idea of when/where certain > groups book?

How would an experienced cruise specialist get this info? I think we’ve pretty much established that this kind of info is not easy to come by. Lee

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> Nina, >    Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from?<< >    And if a TA were to tell a potential cruiser about which groups were booked > on a cruise, could we then also ask the full demographics of ALL > cruisers on a particular cruise?  How many children, how many toddlers, > how many infants, religious denominations, ethnic backgrounds, marital status > and histories, age breakdowns, medical and psychiatric histories, etc. etc.???

In some cases, and purely for positive reasons, a general idea of the demographic would be helpful for some. Let’s say a group of single women are looking for a cruise where there might be some single men? They’re deciding between two ships. Ship #1, they find out, has 500 seniors booked, the rest are young families. Ship #2 has some seniors, some families, and many, many singles. So, they pick cruise #2. It’s not that they have any predjudices against the elderly or families with young kids, it’s just that they prefer to spend their precious vacation time and money in an environment that more closely suits them. They don’t know ethnicity of fellow passengers, or religious affiliations, nor do they know their medical histories. What they would know, is that there’s a greater potential for a full disco for late night dancing and partying. >    For that matter, maybe airlines should advise us all this info for each > potential flight we might book.  

Flights are not the vacation. Your logic doesn’t apply. >And what about resorts and hotels?

Many resorts will only allow couples – singles and families may not stay. Many resorts are geared for families – singles are not particularly welcome. > Conventions?  

If you attend a convention, obviously, you know who the other conventioneers will be – not personally, but they will be attending for the same business or personal interest. Ages, marital status have no meaning if you attend a Trekkie convention, just that you’re a Trekkie, as well. >Casinos?

Perhaps some people spend an entire vacation in a casino, but usually not. It’s a component of a vacation, not the whole vacation. The common ground here, is that all in attendance enjoy gambling – age, marital status, physical health have no bearing on everyone’s enjoyment of the shared activity. > Exhibitions?

Like the Fancy Food Show at the Javits Center? Or the Gift show? Or the Stationery show? Again, the draw is the product being displayed – everyone in attendance is either interested in selling product or buying product. I don’t think a sales rep will care if a potential customer is black, white, green, purple, married, single, psychotic – if they’ve got money to spend on product, they’re welcome. >     I fear you posters wanting this "information" about an upcoming cruise are > skating on very very thin (not to mention extremely tacky) ice here. > Where do you all propose to draw the line? >     Arne

My niece and I were not able to book a cruise on Princess because they had reached their teen quota. So, it seems to me that the cruise lines may already be drawing the line, to a degree – they’re just not sharing the info with their passengers. Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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>Nina, >   Does it really matter what part of the country these folk came from? >one area is no worse or better than any other area.

As a born, bred and nearly lifelong resident of the Northeast … My impressions are indeed that rudeness here is generally greater than other parts of the country … Maybe too fast paced for civility to overcome rudeness … Be seeing you In the Village Number 6

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Hi #6,   Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.? and no one part of the USA holds the award for the most rudest.Has met some of the rudest peope that hailed from all parts of the US but that doesnt make me think that all the people living within the bounderies of this country are rude. Just some more than ohers:-). S’nd I

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>Hi #6, >  Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be >ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in >particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.?

Put a dot in the center of Manhattan and draw a 50 mile radius … Maybe it’s the constant traffic and noise in much of that area … New Hampshire and Vermont though Northeast surely did not qualify … and PA and NJ away from NYC and Philly are also exempt … In general … in the South and Midwest … and West and Northwest … In my experiences were very low on rudeness meters … Be seeing you In the Village Number 6

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> >Hi #6, >  Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be >ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in >particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.? > Put a dot in the center of Manhattan and draw a 50 mile radius … Maybe it’s > the constant traffic and noise in much of that area … > New Hampshire and Vermont though Northeast surely did not qualify … and PA > and NJ away from NYC and Philly are also exempt … > In general … in the South and Midwest … and West and Northwest … In my > experiences were very low on rudeness meters …

I’m from that 50 mile NYC radius too – it’s where I grew up, and where I currently live (although I think my house is closer to 55 or 60 miles from NYC). I kind of have to agree that this area does APPEAR to have the rudest people in the country (I’ve travelled to most regions except the deep south), but rather than rudeness, I think it’s more a self-protecting big city thing. Don’t make eye contact with fellow subway riders, don’t talk to strangers, count your change, etc. Living in such a dense population center breeds more distrust because of the higher number of crimes, compared to more rural (and probably less affluent) areas. It’s not that New Yorkers are rude, it’s just that they’re not as forthcoming with warmth, I guess. There’s an edginess (not edgy as in nervous, but edgy as in sharp) to life in the NYC metro area, and that can be misconstrued as rudeness. Funny that you mention Vermont as not being included in the northeast rudeness circle. I lived in Vermont for many years, and I could definitely see how someone could find Vermonters (especially Souther Vermonters) to be rude. Talk about not effusively friendly. You ask for directions? Here’s a typical converstation: You: Can you tell me how to get to Brattleboro? Vermonter: Yup. You: Shoud I continue straight on this road? Vermonter: Nope. You: Should I make a left at the next junction? Vermonter: Yup. and so on, and so on, and so on. They’re not rude, really – just wary of strangers in their parts. I found that the folks in Alaska were the friendliest, most forthcoming and warm people I’ve ever met. I thought about it a lot during our trip this Summer, and I really believe that, with what they must endure in the Winter, with how few of them there are…they really can’t afford to p*** any of their neighbors and fellow townspeople off – you never know when you’ll need a tow out of a snow drift, or some other favor. Especially in a place like Fairbanks, where it really gets tough in the Winter, it’s got to make it easier to endure with the stronger sense of community I felt. Great people up there. Lee – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Be seeing you > In the Village > Number 6

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Was the lady addressed by the name SADIE the official holder of seats?. Was there no one by the name of Tiffany, Brittney, Ashley, Courtney that were having their names screamed out.? Johngg S’nd I

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi #6, >  Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be >ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in >particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.? >Put a dot in the center of Manhattan and draw a 50 mile radius … Maybe it’s >the constant traffic and noise in much of that area … >New Hampshire and Vermont though Northeast surely did not qualify … and PA >and NJ away from NYC and Philly are also exempt … >In general … in the South and Midwest … and West and Northwest … In my >experiences were very low on rudeness meters … >Be seeing you >In the Village >Number 6

I’m from massachusetts and it’s no picnic here.  Actually I find New England to be less friendly than New York.  I can always break through that tough outer layer when in NY and once you do you can’t shut a New Yorker up.  New Englanders are tough through and through.  In many small cities and towns you will always be considered as an outsider if you are not a direct descendant of someone from the Mayflower and will have to be a third generation resident of a town before they will start considering one of them. Thumper

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> Your saying people in the northeast of the USA appear to you to be > ruder than any other area is illogical. Are you talking about NYC in > particular or are you taking the WHOLE NE into consideration.?

Living in the Northeast I have observed that New Yorkers are ruder than others who live in the Northeast. Had the same experience on a cruise where a large group of senior New Yorkers were the rudist people I ever cruised with. Saw several New Yorker seniors almost come to blows. > and no one part of the USA holds the award for the most rudest.Has met > some of the rudest peope that hailed from all parts of the US but that > doesnt make me think that all the people living within the bounderies of > this country are rude. Just some more than ohers:-).

There are regional variations. People in the west, midwest and south are more polite than here in the northeast. In some of those areas they even give pedestians the right of way. — Charles

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In some cases, and purely for positive reasons, a general idea of the demographic would be helpful for some.<<    From the receiver’s end, but you still have not addressed my question about where to draw the line from the giving (of information) end.     Yes, my logic was exaggerated in regard to casinos, exhibits, etc. but if a vendor starts giving out demographics for "positive" reasons, are they then not subject to also release info. for possible negative reasons as well?       Arne

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Doesn’t Carnival have the infamous "Vacation Guarantee?" If they were that obnoxious, why didn’t you just exercise your right to get off the ship.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I NEVER would have thought that the make-up of a single group would ruin a > cruise for me.  But, then it happened on Paradise.  The ship was booked by > an enormous group of elderly folks from a northeastern city.  These people > complained loudly about everything.   They pushed their way to the front of > every line (quite literally).   There were battles over seats in the > showroom. One elderly "gentleman" laid across an entire row to save it and > threatened to beat the sh*t out of the helpless Carnival employee who was > explaining the seat-saving rules.  I’ve got pictures of two elderly men with > their fists up in the showroom — fighting over seats!   Don’t know why they > bothered going to the shows because they didn’t watch them.  They just > complained during the entire show.  If there had just been a couple hundred > of these people on the cruise, it wouldn’t have been so bad.   But they made > up about 1/3 of the passengers. > This cruise was miserable.   These people were rude, complained loudly, and > never ever shut up.  There was no getting away from them or ignoring them. > If there was any way to avoid a repeat of this sort of cruise I’d take it. > Haven’t found any TA who was able to provide group info, though. > Nina > There is no law but cruise lines keep most group bookings very > confidential for competitive reasons.<< >      Not to mention that this is America where we value liberty, > individual freedoms, nondiscrimination, equality, privacy, etc. > (at least I sure hope we do, rather than merely paying lipservice > to these ideals). >      Somehow, I don’t think the makeup of a group booked on a cruise > is subject to any freedom-of-information laws.  If anything, I should > think > privacy of personal information laws would be more appropros. >     Arne

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