"This year’s election offers the chance… to bring to the House a new majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, and too easy with the public’s money." "…we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people govern themselves." – The Republican "Contract With America"

Response:

> "This year’s election offers the chance… to bring to the House a new > majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic > change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, > and too easy with the public’s money." > "…we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see > the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of > scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people > govern themselves." > – The Republican "Contract With America"

Wasn’t there also some wording in that contract stating that those who signed the document would retire from office if they did NOT fulfill the contract? Frickin’ liars.

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> "This year’s election offers the chance… to bring to the House a new >> majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic >> change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, >> and too easy with the public’s money." >> "…we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see >> the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of >> scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people >> govern themselves." >> – The Republican "Contract With America" >Wasn’t there also some wording in that contract stating >that those who signed the document would retire from >office if they did NOT fulfill the contract? >No, but it’s fun watching you make it up as you go along.

It’s better than pictures of you wearing makeup >Frickin’ liars.

– Ken Wilson

Response:

don’t make me post it. Term limits of 12 years is what they promised. Oh Newt where are thou? The Contract with America was a document released by the Republican Party of the United States during the 1994 Congressional election campaign. Largely written by Representative Richard Armey, and in part using text from former President Ronald Reagan’s 1985 State of the Union Address, the Contract detailed the actions that the Republicans promised to take if they became the majority party in the United States House of Representatives for the first time in forty years. Many of the Contract’s policy ideas originated at The Heritage Foundation, an influential conservative think-tank. The Contract with America was introduced six weeks before the 1994 Congressional election, the first midterm election of President Bill Clinton’s Administration, and was signed by all but two of the Republican members of the House, and all of the Party’s non-incumbent Republican Congressional candidates. The Contract’s actual text was a list of actions the Republicans promised to take if they were in the majority following the election. During the construction of the Contract, Gingrich insisted on "60% issues", meaning that the Contract avoided making promises on more controversial and divisive issues, such as abortion or school prayer. According to Lou Cannon, more than half of its text was taken verbatim from Reagan’s 1985 State of the Union Address. The promises were a conservative wish-list, made up of two parts. The text of the contract was mostly written by Congressman Dick Armey. [edit] Government reform On the first day of their majority, the Republicans promised to hold floor votes on eight reforms of government operations: require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply to Congress; select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse; cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third; limit the terms of all committee chairs; ban the casting of proxy votes in committee; require committee meetings to be open to the public; require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase; and implement a zero base-line budgeting process for the annual Federal Budget. The Contract had promised ten bills to implement major reform of the Federal Government. When the 104th Congress assembled in January 1995, the Republican majority sought to implement the Contract. In some cases (e.g. The National Security Restoration Act and The Personal Responsibility Act), the proposed bills were accomplished by a single act analogous to that which had been proposed in the Contract; in other cases (e.g. The Job Creation and Wage Enhancement Act), a proposed bill’s provisions were split up across multiple acts. Most of the bills died in the Senate…. – wiki As Republican Members of the House of Representatives and as citizens seeking to join that body we propose not just to change its policies, but even more important, to restore the bonds of trust between the people and their elected representatives. That is why, in this era of official evasion and posturing, we offer instead a detailed agenda for national renewal, a written commitment with no fine print. This year’s election offers the chance, after four decades of one-party control, to bring to the House a new majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, and too easy with the public’s money. It can be the beginning of a Congress that respects the values and shares the faith of the American family. Like Lincoln, our first Republican president, we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people govern themselves. On the first day of the 104th Congress, the new Republican majority will immediately pass the following major reforms, aimed at restoring the faith and trust of the American people in their government: FIRST, require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply equally to the Congress; SECOND, select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse; THIRD, cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third; FOURTH, limit the terms of all committee chairs; FIFTH, ban the casting of proxy votes in committee; SIXTH, require committee meetings to be open to the public; SEVENTH, require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase; EIGHTH, guarantee an honest accounting of our Federal Budget by implementing zero base-line budgeting. Thereafter, within the first 100 days of the 104th Congress, we shall bring to the House Floor the following bills, each to be given full and open debate, each to be given a clear and fair vote and each to be immediately available this day for public inspection and scrutiny. To help you out, here are the names of the Representatives who made this promise: Charles Bass, NH-02 Steve Chabot, OH-01 Tom Davis, VA-11 Mark Foley, FL-16 Rodney Frelinghuysen, NJ-11 Gil Gutknecht, MN-01 Doc Hastings, WA-04 J.D. Hayworth, AZ-08 John Hostettler, IN-09 Walter Jones, NC-03 Sue Kelly, NY-19 Ray LaHood, IL-18 Tom Latham, IA-04 Steven LaTourette, OH-14 Sue Myrick, NC-09 Robert Ney, OH-18 Charlie Norwood, GA-09 George Radanovich, CA-19 John Shadegg, AZ-03 Mac Thornberry, TX-13 Todd Tiahrt, KS-04 Dave Weldon, FL-15 Jerry Weller, IL-11 Ed Whitfield, KY-01 Roger Wicker, MS-01 Here are the senators elected that year who made the same pledge: Mike DeWine, OH Jon Kyl, AZ Rick Santorum, PA Olympia Snowe, ME Craig Thomas, WY All of these Republican Contract With America candidates are seeking re

"This year’s election offers the chance… to bring to the House a new majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, and too easy with the public’s money." "…we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people govern themselves." – The Republican "Contract With America"

Response:

> "This year’s election offers the chance… to bring to the House a new > majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic > change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, > and too easy with the public’s money." > "…we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see > the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of > scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people > govern themselves." > – The Republican "Contract With America"

Wasn’t there also some wording in that contract stating that those who signed the document would retire from office if they did NOT fulfill the contract? Frickin’ liars.

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> "This year’s election offers the chance… to bring to the House a new >> majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic >> change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, >> and too easy with the public’s money." >> "…we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see >> the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of >> scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people >> govern themselves." >> – The Republican "Contract With America" >Wasn’t there also some wording in that contract stating >that those who signed the document would retire from >office if they did NOT fulfill the contract? >No, but it’s fun watching you make it up as you go along.

It’s better than pictures of you wearing makeup >Frickin’ liars.

– Ken Wilson

Response:

don’t make me post it. Term limits of 12 years is what they promised. Oh Newt where are thou? The Contract with America was a document released by the Republican Party of the United States during the 1994 Congressional election campaign. Largely written by Representative Richard Armey, and in part using text from former President Ronald Reagan’s 1985 State of the Union Address, the Contract detailed the actions that the Republicans promised to take if they became the majority party in the United States House of Representatives for the first time in forty years. Many of the Contract’s policy ideas originated at The Heritage Foundation, an influential conservative think-tank. The Contract with America was introduced six weeks before the 1994 Congressional election, the first midterm election of President Bill Clinton’s Administration, and was signed by all but two of the Republican members of the House, and all of the Party’s non-incumbent Republican Congressional candidates. The Contract’s actual text was a list of actions the Republicans promised to take if they were in the majority following the election. During the construction of the Contract, Gingrich insisted on "60% issues", meaning that the Contract avoided making promises on more controversial and divisive issues, such as abortion or school prayer. According to Lou Cannon, more than half of its text was taken verbatim from Reagan’s 1985 State of the Union Address. The promises were a conservative wish-list, made up of two parts. The text of the contract was mostly written by Congressman Dick Armey. [edit] Government reform On the first day of their majority, the Republicans promised to hold floor votes on eight reforms of government operations: require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply to Congress; select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse; cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third; limit the terms of all committee chairs; ban the casting of proxy votes in committee; require committee meetings to be open to the public; require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase; and implement a zero base-line budgeting process for the annual Federal Budget. The Contract had promised ten bills to implement major reform of the Federal Government. When the 104th Congress assembled in January 1995, the Republican majority sought to implement the Contract. In some cases (e.g. The National Security Restoration Act and The Personal Responsibility Act), the proposed bills were accomplished by a single act analogous to that which had been proposed in the Contract; in other cases (e.g. The Job Creation and Wage Enhancement Act), a proposed bill’s provisions were split up across multiple acts. Most of the bills died in the Senate…. – wiki As Republican Members of the House of Representatives and as citizens seeking to join that body we propose not just to change its policies, but even more important, to restore the bonds of trust between the people and their elected representatives. That is why, in this era of official evasion and posturing, we offer instead a detailed agenda for national renewal, a written commitment with no fine print. This year’s election offers the chance, after four decades of one-party control, to bring to the House a new majority that will transform the way Congress works. That historic change would be the end of government that is too big, too intrusive, and too easy with the public’s money. It can be the beginning of a Congress that respects the values and shares the faith of the American family. Like Lincoln, our first Republican president, we intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people govern themselves. On the first day of the 104th Congress, the new Republican majority will immediately pass the following major reforms, aimed at restoring the faith and trust of the American people in their government: FIRST, require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply equally to the Congress; SECOND, select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse; THIRD, cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third; FOURTH, limit the terms of all committee chairs; FIFTH, ban the casting of proxy votes in committee; SIXTH, require committee meetings to be open to the public; SEVENTH, require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase; EIGHTH, guarantee an honest accounting of our Federal Budget by implementing zero base-line budgeting. Thereafter, within the first 100 days of the 104th Congress, we shall bring to the House Floor the following bills, each to be given full and open debate, each to be given a clear and fair vote and each to be immediately available this day for public inspection and scrutiny. To help you out, here are the names of the Representatives who made this promise: Charles Bass, NH-02 Steve Chabot, OH-01 Tom Davis, VA-11 Mark Foley, FL-16 Rodney Frelinghuysen, NJ-11 Gil Gutknecht, MN-01 Doc Hastings, WA-04 J.D. Hayworth, AZ-08 John Hostettler, IN-09 Walter Jones, NC-03 Sue Kelly, NY-19 Ray LaHood, IL-18 Tom Latham, IA-04 Steven LaTourette, OH-14 Sue Myrick, NC-09 Robert Ney, OH-18 Charlie Norwood, GA-09 George Radanovich, CA-19 John Shadegg, AZ-03 Mac Thornberry, TX-13 Todd Tiahrt, KS-04 Dave Weldon, FL-15 Jerry Weller, IL-11 Ed Whitfield, KY-01 Roger Wicker, MS-01 Here are the senators elected that year who made the same pledge: Mike DeWine, OH Jon Kyl, AZ Rick Santorum, PA Olympia Snowe, ME Craig Thomas, WY All of these Republican Contract With America candidates are seeking re

I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old patio speakers … I can’t find a store locally that has them. The cool wooden speaker cabinets are from a 1950 school room PA system … art deco 6" square framed boxes with a tweed cloth.  The kind I grew up with where the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before announcements. Radio Shack will sell you a complete phone kit for the entire family plus lost insurance so when your 1st grader loses their custom one at the playground you can get a replacement. They don’t stock pieces of stuff anymore. Your lucky if find AC/DC adapter but you can order it for home delivery. *HI FI* Component stereos ? Gone. X generation is growing up to a world of MP3 noise with cheap ear phones. Home Electronics ? Gone. Technology break through are pawned out to 3rd world shithole to mass manufacture .. including service skills with it. A friend of mine mentioned once if he gets laid off again from a computer company .. He is going going to get a license for AC home repair. You can’t outsource that. Some day .. when they find a buried soldering iron it will end up in a museum  of some lost culture who built crude devices from electronics. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

well duh what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old > patio speakers … I can’t find a store > locally that has them. The cool wooden speaker cabinets are > from a 1950 school room PA system … art deco 6" square framed > boxes with a tweed cloth.  The kind I grew up with where > the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of > Allegiance every morning before announcements. > Radio Shack will sell you a complete phone kit for the entire family > plus lost insurance so when your 1st grader loses their custom one > at the playground you can get a replacement. They don’t stock pieces > of stuff anymore. Your lucky if find AC/DC adapter but you can > order it for home delivery. > *HI FI* Component stereos ? Gone. X generation is growing up to a > world of MP3 noise with cheap ear phones. > Home Electronics ? Gone. Technology break through are pawned out > to 3rd world shithole to mass manufacture .. including > service skills with it. > A friend of mine mentioned once if he gets laid off again from > a computer company .. He is going going to get a license for > AC home repair. You can’t outsource that. > Some day .. when they find a buried soldering iron it will > end up in a museum  of some lost culture who built crude > devices from electronics. > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet > News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > Newsgroups > —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Hi, Not yet, as long as I am alive, LOL! Tony

Response:

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/?gclid=COeb0uHfn4cCFSFvNAodlhqV4g maybe? product search for 4" speakers returned 200 results.

Response:

crutchfield.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old > patio speakers … I can’t find a store > locally that has them. The cool wooden speaker cabinets are > from a 1950 school room PA system … art deco 6" square framed > boxes with a tweed cloth.  The kind I grew up with where > the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of > Allegiance every morning before announcements. > Radio Shack will sell you a complete phone kit for the entire family > plus lost insurance so when your 1st grader loses their custom one > at the playground you can get a replacement. They don’t stock pieces > of stuff anymore. Your lucky if find AC/DC adapter but you can > order it for home delivery. > *HI FI* Component stereos ? Gone. X generation is growing up to a > world of MP3 noise with cheap ear phones. > Home Electronics ? Gone. Technology break through are pawned out > to 3rd world shithole to mass manufacture .. including > service skills with it. > A friend of mine mentioned once if he gets laid off again from > a computer company .. He is going going to get a license for > AC home repair. You can’t outsource that. > Some day .. when they find a buried soldering iron it will > end up in a museum  of some lost culture who built crude > devices from electronics. > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet > News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > Newsgroups > —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

> the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of > Allegiance every morning before announcements.

I remember those days too.  Hard to believe we ever made it through such times, what with the blatant patriotism and gasp…occasional prayer.  Back then you respected the teachers or you found yourself in the hallway getting acquainted with a hard piece of lumber.  Funny I don’t recall any shootings or stabbings in my schools.  Yeah, things were a tad different back then… ef

Response:

>well duh >what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for?

I remember when that speaker announced the death of president JFK. Sad day in the 5th grade…

Response:

> I remember those days too.  Hard to believe we ever made it through such > times, what with the blatant patriotism and gasp…occasional prayer.  Back > then you respected the teachers or you found yourself in the hallway getting > acquainted with a hard piece of lumber.  Funny I don’t recall any shootings > or stabbings in my schools.  Yeah, things were a tad different back then…

Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would beat children there would be less violence.

Response:

> Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > beat children there would be less violence.

Exactly.  There WAS less violence. ef

Response:

> > Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > beat children there would be less violence. > Exactly.  There WAS less violence. > ef

now don’t get all political on me, but are you sure there was less violence???? I’ve spent a lot of time reading local newspapers from the 20s and there is nothing happening today that didn’t happen then unless it’s done with new technology and more lawyers while larger cameras are watching.

Response:

> what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for?

  Yeah Yeah. I’d rather shop in at a local store and save the UPS expense. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > > beat children there would be less violence. > Exactly.  There WAS less violence. > ef > now don’t get all political on me, but are you sure there was less > violence???? > I’ve spent a lot of time reading local newspapers from the 20s and > there is nothing happening today that didn’t happen then unless it’s > done with new technology and more lawyers while larger cameras are > watching.

Good point. I read newspapers and court records from the early 1800s. Those guys pounded the hell out of each other whenever they got together. Every time the judge came to town for court, most of the men in the community would be up on charges of assault and battery. There was far more interpersonal violence than there is today.  But perhaps when ef was a boy, things were different. Most of my research is in the south, which has always been the most violent region of the country.

Response:

> > what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for? >   Yeah Yeah. I’d rather shop in at a local store and save the UPS expense. > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

You don’t actually save on shipping because the the store has to pay shippng too which you pay in the price and internet stores generally have a 6% price advantage on account that most of them don’t collect sales tax unless they have interstate locations or they are in your state. And you don’t drive or stand in line. (just saying). I’d rather shop locally too, but this is the reality. Won’t change until they have a national sales tax or force internet stores to collect all state sales taxes. The only thing the store has over the internet is service and touchey feeley. But if they don’t have that (shrug) whatcha gonna do?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > > > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > > > beat children there would be less violence. > > Exactly.  There WAS less violence. > > ef > now don’t get all political on me, but are you sure there was less > violence???? > I’ve spent a lot of time reading local newspapers from the 20s and > there is nothing happening today that didn’t happen then unless it’s > done with new technology and more lawyers while larger cameras are > watching. > Good point. I read newspapers and court records from the early 1800s. > Those guys pounded the hell out of each other whenever they got > together. Every time the judge came to town for court, most of the men > in the community would be up on charges of assault and battery. There > was far more interpersonal violence than there is today.  But perhaps > when ef was a boy, things were different. Most of my research is in the > south, which has always been the most violent region of the country.

Is that true? more violent than the west? Than Texas? I find that hard to believe. I guess it depends on how you measure and whom you measure. Outside of slavery, I thought southerners were right "gentlemanly." There’s a cemetary near here called Baby Head Cemetary (I’ll let your imagination roam), and in a local history there’s a description of a Mason happening upon a fellow down by the creek skinning a Comanche whom he shot dead with the intent of making horse gear out of his skin.  There’s descriptions of kids shooting violent fathers to protect their mothers, and kids robbing banks at gun point. Anyway it was a whole lot easier to get away with murder in the good old days, you just had to be a good shot and ride fast and hard or have the mob on your side.

Response:

> Most of my research is in the > south, which has always been the most violent region of the country. > Is that true? more violent than the west?

Would I lie to you? > Than Texas?

I would include Texas in the south, but YMMV. Certainly east TX is as Deep South as it gets. Remember the James Byrd lynching in Jasper, TX back in the 90s? A half hour south of that is Vidor, TX, which until the early 80s was notorious for a billboard on the freeway that warned [n-word redacted] to be out of town by sunset. > I find that hard > to believe.

Don’t believe anything you read on usenet. Check it out for yourself. > I guess it depends on how you measure and whom you measure.

For recent decades, the Justice Department stats are easily accessible and crunchable. For earlier periods, it takes more intensive archival research. > Outside of slavery, I thought southerners were right "gentlemanly."

The more violent a culture, the more it becomes obsessed with propriety and honor, which then feeds back and causes even more violence. It’s a vicious cycle. The other piece of it is that they were drunk most of the time back then, due to lack of potable water, especially in social situations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There’s a cemetary near here called Baby Head Cemetary (I’ll let your > imagination roam), and in a local history there’s a description of a > Mason happening upon a fellow down by the creek skinning a Comanche > whom he shot dead with the intent of making horse gear out of his skin. >  There’s descriptions of kids shooting violent fathers to protect their > mothers, and kids robbing banks at gun point. Anyway it was a whole lot > easier to get away with murder in the good old days, you just had to be > a good shot and ride fast and hard or have the mob on your side.

Response:

"I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old patio speakers .. I can’t find a store locally that has them. " I had seen these from JBL, weren’t exactly what I thought. But you could cut them out of the can and hotrod your boxes for maximum spl and clarity. Have to drill a small hole for the tweet though. Or fix it to the cloth in front of the *woof*. Who says DIY is dead I think they have some bullet tweeters on the sale for $224, you could make those boxes into animal control devices! JBL says they aren’t going to make any more bullets, baby-cheeks, or slot, tweeters. Last call except existing stock and ebay etc! B-stock is returned from customer usually, full warranty Actually something like a Fostex fullranger, would be your best bet from a 6" box! You asked and I was bored! The irony is RadioShack used to sell Fostex stuff under their own lable. $32. a side, and quite possibly a dealer in your greater metroplex area. Or start cracking stuff open at goodwill http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/fe103erev2.pdf http://www.madisound.com/fostex.html http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/line_up_1.shtml 3

I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old patio speakers … I can’t find a store locally that has them. The cool wooden speaker cabinets are from a 1950 school room PA system … art deco 6" square framed boxes with a tweed cloth.  The kind I grew up with where the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning before announcements. Radio Shack will sell you a complete phone kit for the entire family plus lost insurance so when your 1st grader loses their custom one at the playground you can get a replacement. They don’t stock pieces of stuff anymore. Your lucky if find AC/DC adapter but you can order it for home delivery. *HI FI* Component stereos ? Gone. X generation is growing up to a world of MP3 noise with cheap ear phones. Home Electronics ? Gone. Technology break through are pawned out to 3rd world shithole to mass manufacture .. including service skills with it. A friend of mine mentioned once if he gets laid off again from a computer company .. He is going going to get a license for AC home repair. You can’t outsource that. Some day .. when they find a buried soldering iron it will end up in a museum  of some lost culture who built crude devices from electronics. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

well duh what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old > patio speakers … I can’t find a store > locally that has them. The cool wooden speaker cabinets are > from a 1950 school room PA system … art deco 6" square framed > boxes with a tweed cloth.  The kind I grew up with where > the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of > Allegiance every morning before announcements. > Radio Shack will sell you a complete phone kit for the entire family > plus lost insurance so when your 1st grader loses their custom one > at the playground you can get a replacement. They don’t stock pieces > of stuff anymore. Your lucky if find AC/DC adapter but you can > order it for home delivery. > *HI FI* Component stereos ? Gone. X generation is growing up to a > world of MP3 noise with cheap ear phones. > Home Electronics ? Gone. Technology break through are pawned out > to 3rd world shithole to mass manufacture .. including > service skills with it. > A friend of mine mentioned once if he gets laid off again from > a computer company .. He is going going to get a license for > AC home repair. You can’t outsource that. > Some day .. when they find a buried soldering iron it will > end up in a museum  of some lost culture who built crude > devices from electronics. > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet > News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > Newsgroups > —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Hi, Not yet, as long as I am alive, LOL! Tony

Response:

http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/?gclid=COeb0uHfn4cCFSFvNAodlhqV4g maybe? product search for 4" speakers returned 200 results.

Response:

crutchfield.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old > patio speakers … I can’t find a store > locally that has them. The cool wooden speaker cabinets are > from a 1950 school room PA system … art deco 6" square framed > boxes with a tweed cloth.  The kind I grew up with where > the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of > Allegiance every morning before announcements. > Radio Shack will sell you a complete phone kit for the entire family > plus lost insurance so when your 1st grader loses their custom one > at the playground you can get a replacement. They don’t stock pieces > of stuff anymore. Your lucky if find AC/DC adapter but you can > order it for home delivery. > *HI FI* Component stereos ? Gone. X generation is growing up to a > world of MP3 noise with cheap ear phones. > Home Electronics ? Gone. Technology break through are pawned out > to 3rd world shithole to mass manufacture .. including > service skills with it. > A friend of mine mentioned once if he gets laid off again from > a computer company .. He is going going to get a license for > AC home repair. You can’t outsource that. > Some day .. when they find a buried soldering iron it will > end up in a museum  of some lost culture who built crude > devices from electronics. > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet > News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > Newsgroups > —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

> the American Flag was hung by, and we said the Pledge of > Allegiance every morning before announcements.

I remember those days too.  Hard to believe we ever made it through such times, what with the blatant patriotism and gasp…occasional prayer.  Back then you respected the teachers or you found yourself in the hallway getting acquainted with a hard piece of lumber.  Funny I don’t recall any shootings or stabbings in my schools.  Yeah, things were a tad different back then… ef

Response:

>well duh >what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for?

I remember when that speaker announced the death of president JFK. Sad day in the 5th grade…

Response:

> I remember those days too.  Hard to believe we ever made it through such > times, what with the blatant patriotism and gasp…occasional prayer.  Back > then you respected the teachers or you found yourself in the hallway getting > acquainted with a hard piece of lumber.  Funny I don’t recall any shootings > or stabbings in my schools.  Yeah, things were a tad different back then…

Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would beat children there would be less violence.

Response:

> Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > beat children there would be less violence.

Exactly.  There WAS less violence. ef

Response:

> > Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > beat children there would be less violence. > Exactly.  There WAS less violence. > ef

now don’t get all political on me, but are you sure there was less violence???? I’ve spent a lot of time reading local newspapers from the 20s and there is nothing happening today that didn’t happen then unless it’s done with new technology and more lawyers while larger cameras are watching.

Response:

> what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for?

  Yeah Yeah. I’d rather shop in at a local store and save the UPS expense. —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > > beat children there would be less violence. > Exactly.  There WAS less violence. > ef > now don’t get all political on me, but are you sure there was less > violence???? > I’ve spent a lot of time reading local newspapers from the 20s and > there is nothing happening today that didn’t happen then unless it’s > done with new technology and more lawyers while larger cameras are > watching.

Good point. I read newspapers and court records from the early 1800s. Those guys pounded the hell out of each other whenever they got together. Every time the judge came to town for court, most of the men in the community would be up on charges of assault and battery. There was far more interpersonal violence than there is today.  But perhaps when ef was a boy, things were different. Most of my research is in the south, which has always been the most violent region of the country.

Response:

> > what do you think god invented google and the UPS man for? >   Yeah Yeah. I’d rather shop in at a local store and save the UPS expense. > —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==—- > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

You don’t actually save on shipping because the the store has to pay shippng too which you pay in the price and internet stores generally have a 6% price advantage on account that most of them don’t collect sales tax unless they have interstate locations or they are in your state. And you don’t drive or stand in line. (just saying). I’d rather shop locally too, but this is the reality. Won’t change until they have a national sales tax or force internet stores to collect all state sales taxes. The only thing the store has over the internet is service and touchey feeley. But if they don’t have that (shrug) whatcha gonna do?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Ah, for the days when there were no shootings or stabbings in school. > > > Just adults beating on children with a 2X4. If only more adults would > > > beat children there would be less violence. > > Exactly.  There WAS less violence. > > ef > now don’t get all political on me, but are you sure there was less > violence???? > I’ve spent a lot of time reading local newspapers from the 20s and > there is nothing happening today that didn’t happen then unless it’s > done with new technology and more lawyers while larger cameras are > watching. > Good point. I read newspapers and court records from the early 1800s. > Those guys pounded the hell out of each other whenever they got > together. Every time the judge came to town for court, most of the men > in the community would be up on charges of assault and battery. There > was far more interpersonal violence than there is today.  But perhaps > when ef was a boy, things were different. Most of my research is in the > south, which has always been the most violent region of the country.

Is that true? more violent than the west? Than Texas? I find that hard to believe. I guess it depends on how you measure and whom you measure. Outside of slavery, I thought southerners were right "gentlemanly." There’s a cemetary near here called Baby Head Cemetary (I’ll let your imagination roam), and in a local history there’s a description of a Mason happening upon a fellow down by the creek skinning a Comanche whom he shot dead with the intent of making horse gear out of his skin.  There’s descriptions of kids shooting violent fathers to protect their mothers, and kids robbing banks at gun point. Anyway it was a whole lot easier to get away with murder in the good old days, you just had to be a good shot and ride fast and hard or have the mob on your side.

Response:

> Most of my research is in the > south, which has always been the most violent region of the country. > Is that true? more violent than the west?

Would I lie to you? > Than Texas?

I would include Texas in the south, but YMMV. Certainly east TX is as Deep South as it gets. Remember the James Byrd lynching in Jasper, TX back in the 90s? A half hour south of that is Vidor, TX, which until the early 80s was notorious for a billboard on the freeway that warned [n-word redacted] to be out of town by sunset. > I find that hard > to believe.

Don’t believe anything you read on usenet. Check it out for yourself. > I guess it depends on how you measure and whom you measure.

For recent decades, the Justice Department stats are easily accessible and crunchable. For earlier periods, it takes more intensive archival research. > Outside of slavery, I thought southerners were right "gentlemanly."

The more violent a culture, the more it becomes obsessed with propriety and honor, which then feeds back and causes even more violence. It’s a vicious cycle. The other piece of it is that they were drunk most of the time back then, due to lack of potable water, especially in social situations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There’s a cemetary near here called Baby Head Cemetary (I’ll let your > imagination roam), and in a local history there’s a description of a > Mason happening upon a fellow down by the creek skinning a Comanche > whom he shot dead with the intent of making horse gear out of his skin. >  There’s descriptions of kids shooting violent fathers to protect their > mothers, and kids robbing banks at gun point. Anyway it was a whole lot > easier to get away with murder in the good old days, you just had to be > a good shot and ride fast and hard or have the mob on your side.

Response:

"I need two 4" speakers and lugs to resurrect some old patio speakers .. I can’t find a store locally that has them. " I had seen these from JBL, weren’t exactly what I thought. But you could cut them out of the can and hotrod your boxes for maximum spl and clarity. Have to drill a small hole for the tweet though. Or fix it to the cloth in front of the *woof*. Who says DIY is dead I think they have some bullet tweeters on the sale for $224, you could make those boxes into animal control devices! JBL says they aren’t going to make any more bullets, baby-cheeks, or slot, tweeters. Last call except existing stock and ebay etc! B-stock is returned from customer usually, full warranty Actually something like a Fostex fullranger, would be your best bet from a 6" box! You asked and I was bored! The irony is RadioShack used to sell Fostex stuff under their own lable. $32. a side, and quite possibly a dealer in your greater metroplex area. Or start cracking stuff open at goodwill http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/fe103erev2.pdf http://www.madisound.com/fostex.html http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/line_up_1.shtml 3

Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. Forces. Today, I ran across this article….the first I’ve seen published about the topic in such detail. Opinions? Mike Democratic Congressmen ask Bush about reports of US military operations in Iran Filed by RAW STORY Two Democratic Congressmen have written letters to President Bush on the heels of a growing number of news reports that American forces may have already begun military operations in Iran, RAW STORY has found. Both House members express concern that if the stories are true, then the president may have acted unilaterally without first obtaining proper authorization from Congress. "Recently, it has been reported that U.S. troops are conducting military operations in Iran," wrote Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) last Friday. Kucinich is the Ranking Democrat on the House Government Reform Subcommittee on National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations. "If true, it appears that you have already made the decision to commit U.S. military forces to a unilateral conflict with Iran, even before direct or indirect negotiations with the government of Iran had been attempted, without UN support and without authorization from the U.S. Congress," Kucinich continued. Congressman Peter DeFazio (D-OR) intends to introduce a resolution "expressing the sense of the Congress that the President cannot initiate military action against Iran without congressional authorization" soon, and is forwarding his letter to other House members to collect additional signatures. "We are writing to remind you that you are constitutionally bound to seek congressional authorization before launching any preventive military strikes against Iran," DeFazio writes. Citing Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution ("The President shall be the Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into actual Service of the United States…"), DeFazio attacks the administration’s frequent interpretation of the clause to historically justify unilateral military actions by presidents without authorization of Congress. "Contrary to your Administration’s broad reading, nothing in the history of the "Commander-in-Chief" clause suggests that the authors of the provision intended it to grant the Executive Branch the authority to engage U.S. forces in military action whenever and wherever it sees fit without any prior authorization from Congress," writes DeFazio. "The founders of our country intended this power to allow the President to repel sudden attacks and immediate threats, not to unilaterally launch, without congressional approval, large-scale preventive military actions against foreign threats that are likely years away from materializing," DeFazio adds.

Response:

> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale > military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. > Forces.

You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there for some time.

Response:

>>Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale >military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. >Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there for > some time.

A-yup…

Response:

> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility > that small scale military action has begun in Iran, and that > it may include members of U.S. Forces. > Today, I ran across this article….the first I’ve seen > published about the topic in such detail. > Opinions?

We (coalition ops) were on the ground in Iraq a full 6  months before the action started.

Response:

>>Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale >military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. >Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there for > some time.

Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small >> scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include >> members of U.S. Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there > for some time. > Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?"

Before the conservatives get too bent out of shape at my question, my next question was to be… Q:  If Iran knows this, can’t they use it to say that we’ve taken military action against a sovereign nation, giving them "justification" for war?  And by "war," we can assume that that would include terrorist activities against US interests at home and/or abroad. Do NOT get me wrong.  There is NEVER an actual justification for the type of terrorism that many of us can envision Iran retaliating with. But that’s beside the point.  The fact is that U.S. military in their country will give THEM "justification" to carry out THEIR version of war. There is now evidence that Bush had already committed to an invasion of Iraq BEFORE ever giving the ultimatums of "give up your weapons of mass destruction and Saddam must step down."  (I happen to believe that it was inevitable from the day he took office.)  There was twisting and shading of "intelligence" (even though much was KNOWN to be flawed) to justify our actions. I hope that we are not conducting military actions above espionage in Iran.  I hope that there are not offensive operations.  But let us not forget who is Commander in Chief.

Response:

for a list of Most Prolific Anti-War Song Artists http://www.lacarte.org/songs/anti-war/by_artist/index.html#summary With Neil Young’s new anti-war album coming out soon, it looks like we’re about to go through another round of  right wing bloggers explaining why artists and musicians aren’t qualified to express political opinions. Unlike, you know, the wing bloggers themselves.  new, anti-war album from Neil Young is apparently on the way: Demme, who filmed the award-winning documentary Neil Young: Heart of Gold, writes in an e-mail, "Neil just finished writing and recording – with no warning – a new album called Living With War. It all happened in three days." How rock ‘n ‘roll is that? Demme continues, "It is a brilliant electric assault, accompanied by a 100-voice choir, on Bush and the war in Iraq…Truly mind blowing. Will be in stores soon." Details are pretty scarce, but the featured track, titled "Impeach the President," features a rap with Bush’s voice set to the choir chanting "flip/flop" and the like. https://www.harpmagazine.com/news/detail.cfm?article=10623

Response:

Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way…..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> for a list of Most Prolific Anti-War Song Artists > http://www.lacarte.org/songs/anti-war/by_artist/index.html#summary > With Neil Young’s new anti-war album coming out soon, it looks like > we’re about to go through another round of  right wing bloggers > explaining why artists and musicians aren’t qualified to express > political opinions. > Unlike, you know, the wing bloggers themselves. >  new, anti-war album from Neil Young is apparently on the way: > Demme, who filmed the award-winning documentary Neil Young: Heart of > Gold, writes in an e-mail, "Neil just finished writing and recording > – with no warning – a new album called Living With War. It all > happened in three days." How rock ‘n ‘roll is that? > Demme continues, "It is a brilliant electric assault, accompanied by > a 100-voice choir, on Bush and the war in Iraq…Truly mind blowing. > Will be in stores soon." > Details are pretty scarce, but the featured track, titled "Impeach > the President," features a rap with Bush’s voice set to the choir > chanting "flip/flop" and the like. > https://www.harpmagazine.com/news/detail.cfm?article=10623

Response:

>> You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of her > for some time. > A-yup…

gtski, I was ready to defend your mother as a matter of principle until you caved like this.

Response:

>Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way…..

Yeah, like it’d be *SUCH* a departure from a belief system he established as a talented, gifted, artistic musician over decades of consistant performance. ya dick. Go stump a cow and look for cash in the mail. Speaking of Cash, Roseanne’s latest is fucking EXCELLENT. CW my ass! She’s on par w/ Aimee Mann now. Love her. mvm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small >> scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include >> members of U.S. Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there > for some time. > Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?"

If Iran IS doing this to us, would it be terrorism..???

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small >>> scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include >>> members of U.S. Forces. >> You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there >> for some time. > Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?" > Before the conservatives get too bent out of shape at my question, my > next question was to be… > Q:  If Iran knows this, can’t they use it to say that we’ve taken > military action against a sovereign nation, giving them "justification" > for war?  And by "war," we can assume that that would include terrorist > activities against US interests at home and/or abroad.

Depends on a lot of things…  the USSR shot down Gary Powers, yet didn’t attack the USA. > Do NOT get me wrong.  There is NEVER an actual justification for the > type of terrorism that many of us can envision Iran retaliating with. > But that’s beside the point.  The fact is that U.S. military in their > country will give THEM "justification" to carry out THEIR version of war.

"Their version of war.." has been going on for a LONG time. Do you know that they support terrorist organizations..???  and have for a long time…??? > There is now evidence that Bush had already committed to an invasion of > Iraq BEFORE ever giving the ultimatums of "give up your weapons of mass > destruction and Saddam must step down."  (I happen to believe that it > was inevitable from the day he took office.)  There was twisting and > shading of "intelligence" (even though much was KNOWN to be flawed) to > justify our actions.

You WANT to believe it, so you do… contrary to what numerous interviews, and news sources, have reported as to what happened. You need to review the definition of "committed" and look at recent history… > I hope that we are not conducting military actions above espionage in > Iran.  I hope that there are not offensive operations.  But let us not > forget who is Commander in Chief.

So "espionage is ok with you…???  You think it is "ok" with the Iranians..????   But let us not forget how uninformed the US general public is…

Response:

mooooooooooooo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way….. > Yeah, like it’d be *SUCH* a departure from a belief system he > established as a talented, gifted, artistic musician over decades of > consistant performance. > ya dick. Go stump a cow and look for cash in the mail. > Speaking of Cash, Roseanne’s latest is fucking EXCELLENT. CW my ass! > She’s on par w/ Aimee Mann now. Love her. mvm

Response:

Well .. the new Chef’ In command of Homeless Security said on TV they were beefing up spying and security intel on Iran .. No doubt they have insiders already. couple of Special Op’s guys tracking people during they prayer breaks in the afternoon. That was before the segment on the illegal-alien workers crack arrests in Houston where they arrested the employer *this time*.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > mooooooooooooo >>Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way….. >Yeah, like it’d be *SUCH* a departure from a belief system he >established as a talented, gifted, artistic musician over decades of >consistant performance. >ya dick. Go stump a cow and look for cash in the mail. >Speaking of Cash, Roseanne’s latest is fucking EXCELLENT. CW my ass! >She’s on par w/ Aimee Mann now. Love her. mvm

Good attitude ‘bro . Breed ‘em, feed ‘em, seed ‘em ‘n eat ‘em.

Response:

> mooooooooooooo

I’m so hard up, I been stumpin’ Saw a warm tailpipe an I gave it a humpin’ Someone slowed down an saw me a pumpin’ I was too gone, couldn’t stop, stuffed it back in Shot my load, asshole done fluttered It hit the muffler like toast gettin’ buttered They heard me scream, don’ think I don’t know The sign said walk but them crischans, they puttered Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again I can’t make this rhyme I flog the bishop’s snawty end Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again I can’t make this rhyme my hog’s itchy, ‘n fulla phlegm I’m so hard up, I been whackin’ Saw an open winder an I gave it a spacklin’ Someone looked up, saw me jackin’ I was too gone, couldn’t stop,’r pull it back in Shot my load, three balls full It hit the wind like a flooger from the jungle Heard her scream, I got an ear full Unclogged my hose, shot a full-on fungal Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again I could make this rhyme -rather flog it, why pretend? Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again Gotta make this rhyme my plugly just gooped -the end

Response:

What key? And do you have the chord chart? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> mooooooooooooo > I’m so hard up, I been stumpin’ > Saw a warm tailpipe an I gave it a humpin’ > Someone slowed down an saw me a pumpin’ > I was too gone, couldn’t stop, stuffed it back in > Shot my load, asshole done fluttered > It hit the muffler like toast gettin’ buttered > They heard me scream, don’ think I don’t know > The sign said walk but them crischans, they puttered > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > I can’t make this rhyme I flog the bishop’s snawty end > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > I can’t make this rhyme my hog’s itchy, ‘n fulla phlegm > I’m so hard up, I been whackin’ > Saw an open winder an I gave it a spacklin’ > Someone looked up, saw me jackin’ > I was too gone, couldn’t stop,’r pull it back in > Shot my load, three balls full > It hit the wind like a flooger from the jungle > Heard her scream, I got an ear full > Unclogged my hose, shot a full-on fungal > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > I could make this rhyme -rather flog it, why pretend? > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > Gotta make this rhyme my plugly just gooped -the end

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What key? And do you have the chord chart? >>mooooooooooooo >I’m so hard up, I been stumpin’ >Saw a warm tailpipe an I gave it a humpin’ >Someone slowed down an saw me a pumpin’ >I was too gone, couldn’t stop, stuffed it back in >Shot my load, asshole done fluttered >It hit the muffler like toast gettin’ buttered >They heard me scream, don’ think I don’t know >The sign said walk but them crischans, they puttered >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >I can’t make this rhyme I flog the bishop’s snawty end >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >I can’t make this rhyme my hog’s itchy, ‘n fulla phlegm >I’m so hard up, I been whackin’ >Saw an open winder an I gave it a spacklin’ >Someone looked up, saw me jackin’ >I was too gone, couldn’t stop,’r pull it back in >Shot my load, three balls full >It hit the wind like a flooger from the jungle >Heard her scream, I got an ear full >Unclogged my hose, shot a full-on fungal >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >I could make this rhyme -rather flog it, why pretend? >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >Gotta make this rhyme my plugly just gooped -the end

Bb would sound good. Nah- I quit playing Jr. maestro a hundred originals ago. Go for it. Try  a V   I   iv    bm9.  Shit, fuck around. Long but good happy BDay.   F7  Bb  Ebm9  Abm9

Response:

Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. Forces. Today, I ran across this article….the first I’ve seen published about the topic in such detail. Opinions? Mike Democratic Congressmen ask Bush about reports of US military operations in Iran Filed by RAW STORY Two Democratic Congressmen have written letters to President Bush on the heels of a growing number of news reports that American forces may have already begun military operations in Iran, RAW STORY has found. Both House members express concern that if the stories are true, then the president may have acted unilaterally without first obtaining proper authorization from Congress. "Recently, it has been reported that U.S. troops are conducting military operations in Iran," wrote Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) last Friday. Kucinich is the Ranking Democrat on the House Government Reform Subcommittee on National Security, Emerging Threats and International Relations. "If true, it appears that you have already made the decision to commit U.S. military forces to a unilateral conflict with Iran, even before direct or indirect negotiations with the government of Iran had been attempted, without UN support and without authorization from the U.S. Congress," Kucinich continued. Congressman Peter DeFazio (D-OR) intends to introduce a resolution "expressing the sense of the Congress that the President cannot initiate military action against Iran without congressional authorization" soon, and is forwarding his letter to other House members to collect additional signatures. "We are writing to remind you that you are constitutionally bound to seek congressional authorization before launching any preventive military strikes against Iran," DeFazio writes. Citing Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution ("The President shall be the Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into actual Service of the United States…"), DeFazio attacks the administration’s frequent interpretation of the clause to historically justify unilateral military actions by presidents without authorization of Congress. "Contrary to your Administration’s broad reading, nothing in the history of the "Commander-in-Chief" clause suggests that the authors of the provision intended it to grant the Executive Branch the authority to engage U.S. forces in military action whenever and wherever it sees fit without any prior authorization from Congress," writes DeFazio. "The founders of our country intended this power to allow the President to repel sudden attacks and immediate threats, not to unilaterally launch, without congressional approval, large-scale preventive military actions against foreign threats that are likely years away from materializing," DeFazio adds.

Response:

> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale > military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. > Forces.

You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there for some time.

Response:

>>Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale >military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. >Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there for > some time.

A-yup…

Response:

> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility > that small scale military action has begun in Iran, and that > it may include members of U.S. Forces. > Today, I ran across this article….the first I’ve seen > published about the topic in such detail. > Opinions?

We (coalition ops) were on the ground in Iraq a full 6  months before the action started.

Response:

>>Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small scale >military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include members of U.S. >Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there for > some time.

Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small >> scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include >> members of U.S. Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there > for some time. > Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?"

Before the conservatives get too bent out of shape at my question, my next question was to be… Q:  If Iran knows this, can’t they use it to say that we’ve taken military action against a sovereign nation, giving them "justification" for war?  And by "war," we can assume that that would include terrorist activities against US interests at home and/or abroad. Do NOT get me wrong.  There is NEVER an actual justification for the type of terrorism that many of us can envision Iran retaliating with. But that’s beside the point.  The fact is that U.S. military in their country will give THEM "justification" to carry out THEIR version of war. There is now evidence that Bush had already committed to an invasion of Iraq BEFORE ever giving the ultimatums of "give up your weapons of mass destruction and Saddam must step down."  (I happen to believe that it was inevitable from the day he took office.)  There was twisting and shading of "intelligence" (even though much was KNOWN to be flawed) to justify our actions. I hope that we are not conducting military actions above espionage in Iran.  I hope that there are not offensive operations.  But let us not forget who is Commander in Chief.

Response:

for a list of Most Prolific Anti-War Song Artists http://www.lacarte.org/songs/anti-war/by_artist/index.html#summary With Neil Young’s new anti-war album coming out soon, it looks like we’re about to go through another round of  right wing bloggers explaining why artists and musicians aren’t qualified to express political opinions. Unlike, you know, the wing bloggers themselves.  new, anti-war album from Neil Young is apparently on the way: Demme, who filmed the award-winning documentary Neil Young: Heart of Gold, writes in an e-mail, "Neil just finished writing and recording – with no warning – a new album called Living With War. It all happened in three days." How rock ‘n ‘roll is that? Demme continues, "It is a brilliant electric assault, accompanied by a 100-voice choir, on Bush and the war in Iraq…Truly mind blowing. Will be in stores soon." Details are pretty scarce, but the featured track, titled "Impeach the President," features a rap with Bush’s voice set to the choir chanting "flip/flop" and the like. https://www.harpmagazine.com/news/detail.cfm?article=10623

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Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way…..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> for a list of Most Prolific Anti-War Song Artists > http://www.lacarte.org/songs/anti-war/by_artist/index.html#summary > With Neil Young’s new anti-war album coming out soon, it looks like > we’re about to go through another round of  right wing bloggers > explaining why artists and musicians aren’t qualified to express > political opinions. > Unlike, you know, the wing bloggers themselves. >  new, anti-war album from Neil Young is apparently on the way: > Demme, who filmed the award-winning documentary Neil Young: Heart of > Gold, writes in an e-mail, "Neil just finished writing and recording > – with no warning – a new album called Living With War. It all > happened in three days." How rock ‘n ‘roll is that? > Demme continues, "It is a brilliant electric assault, accompanied by > a 100-voice choir, on Bush and the war in Iraq…Truly mind blowing. > Will be in stores soon." > Details are pretty scarce, but the featured track, titled "Impeach > the President," features a rap with Bush’s voice set to the choir > chanting "flip/flop" and the like. > https://www.harpmagazine.com/news/detail.cfm?article=10623

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>> You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of her > for some time. > A-yup…

gtski, I was ready to defend your mother as a matter of principle until you caved like this.

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>Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way…..

Yeah, like it’d be *SUCH* a departure from a belief system he established as a talented, gifted, artistic musician over decades of consistant performance. ya dick. Go stump a cow and look for cash in the mail. Speaking of Cash, Roseanne’s latest is fucking EXCELLENT. CW my ass! She’s on par w/ Aimee Mann now. Love her. mvm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small >> scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include >> members of U.S. Forces. > You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there > for some time. > Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?"

If Iran IS doing this to us, would it be terrorism..???

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Reporters have been quietly talking about the possibility that small >>> scale military action has begun in Iran, and that it may include >>> members of U.S. Forces. >> You can bet that there have been Special Ops guys in and out of there >> for some time. > Q:  If Iran did that to us, wouldn’t that be "terrorism?" > Before the conservatives get too bent out of shape at my question, my > next question was to be… > Q:  If Iran knows this, can’t they use it to say that we’ve taken > military action against a sovereign nation, giving them "justification" > for war?  And by "war," we can assume that that would include terrorist > activities against US interests at home and/or abroad.

Depends on a lot of things…  the USSR shot down Gary Powers, yet didn’t attack the USA. > Do NOT get me wrong.  There is NEVER an actual justification for the > type of terrorism that many of us can envision Iran retaliating with. > But that’s beside the point.  The fact is that U.S. military in their > country will give THEM "justification" to carry out THEIR version of war.

"Their version of war.." has been going on for a LONG time. Do you know that they support terrorist organizations..???  and have for a long time…??? > There is now evidence that Bush had already committed to an invasion of > Iraq BEFORE ever giving the ultimatums of "give up your weapons of mass > destruction and Saddam must step down."  (I happen to believe that it > was inevitable from the day he took office.)  There was twisting and > shading of "intelligence" (even though much was KNOWN to be flawed) to > justify our actions.

You WANT to believe it, so you do… contrary to what numerous interviews, and news sources, have reported as to what happened. You need to review the definition of "committed" and look at recent history… > I hope that we are not conducting military actions above espionage in > Iran.  I hope that there are not offensive operations.  But let us not > forget who is Commander in Chief.

So "espionage is ok with you…???  You think it is "ok" with the Iranians..????   But let us not forget how uninformed the US general public is…

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mooooooooooooo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way….. > Yeah, like it’d be *SUCH* a departure from a belief system he > established as a talented, gifted, artistic musician over decades of > consistant performance. > ya dick. Go stump a cow and look for cash in the mail. > Speaking of Cash, Roseanne’s latest is fucking EXCELLENT. CW my ass! > She’s on par w/ Aimee Mann now. Love her. mvm

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Well .. the new Chef’ In command of Homeless Security said on TV they were beefing up spying and security intel on Iran .. No doubt they have insiders already. couple of Special Op’s guys tracking people during they prayer breaks in the afternoon. That was before the segment on the illegal-alien workers crack arrests in Houston where they arrested the employer *this time*.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > mooooooooooooo >>Young is smart…….a big cash cow on the way….. >Yeah, like it’d be *SUCH* a departure from a belief system he >established as a talented, gifted, artistic musician over decades of >consistant performance. >ya dick. Go stump a cow and look for cash in the mail. >Speaking of Cash, Roseanne’s latest is fucking EXCELLENT. CW my ass! >She’s on par w/ Aimee Mann now. Love her. mvm

Good attitude ‘bro . Breed ‘em, feed ‘em, seed ‘em ‘n eat ‘em.

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> mooooooooooooo

I’m so hard up, I been stumpin’ Saw a warm tailpipe an I gave it a humpin’ Someone slowed down an saw me a pumpin’ I was too gone, couldn’t stop, stuffed it back in Shot my load, asshole done fluttered It hit the muffler like toast gettin’ buttered They heard me scream, don’ think I don’t know The sign said walk but them crischans, they puttered Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again I can’t make this rhyme I flog the bishop’s snawty end Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again I can’t make this rhyme my hog’s itchy, ‘n fulla phlegm I’m so hard up, I been whackin’ Saw an open winder an I gave it a spacklin’ Someone looked up, saw me jackin’ I was too gone, couldn’t stop,’r pull it back in Shot my load, three balls full It hit the wind like a flooger from the jungle Heard her scream, I got an ear full Unclogged my hose, shot a full-on fungal Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again I could make this rhyme -rather flog it, why pretend? Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again Gotta make this rhyme my plugly just gooped -the end

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What key? And do you have the chord chart? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> mooooooooooooo > I’m so hard up, I been stumpin’ > Saw a warm tailpipe an I gave it a humpin’ > Someone slowed down an saw me a pumpin’ > I was too gone, couldn’t stop, stuffed it back in > Shot my load, asshole done fluttered > It hit the muffler like toast gettin’ buttered > They heard me scream, don’ think I don’t know > The sign said walk but them crischans, they puttered > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > I can’t make this rhyme I flog the bishop’s snawty end > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > I can’t make this rhyme my hog’s itchy, ‘n fulla phlegm > I’m so hard up, I been whackin’ > Saw an open winder an I gave it a spacklin’ > Someone looked up, saw me jackin’ > I was too gone, couldn’t stop,’r pull it back in > Shot my load, three balls full > It hit the wind like a flooger from the jungle > Heard her scream, I got an ear full > Unclogged my hose, shot a full-on fungal > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > I could make this rhyme -rather flog it, why pretend? > Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again > Gotta make this rhyme my plugly just gooped -the end

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What key? And do you have the chord chart? >>mooooooooooooo >I’m so hard up, I been stumpin’ >Saw a warm tailpipe an I gave it a humpin’ >Someone slowed down an saw me a pumpin’ >I was too gone, couldn’t stop, stuffed it back in >Shot my load, asshole done fluttered >It hit the muffler like toast gettin’ buttered >They heard me scream, don’ think I don’t know >The sign said walk but them crischans, they puttered >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >I can’t make this rhyme I flog the bishop’s snawty end >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >I can’t make this rhyme my hog’s itchy, ‘n fulla phlegm >I’m so hard up, I been whackin’ >Saw an open winder an I gave it a spacklin’ >Someone looked up, saw me jackin’ >I was too gone, couldn’t stop,’r pull it back in >Shot my load, three balls full >It hit the wind like a flooger from the jungle >Heard her scream, I got an ear full >Unclogged my hose, shot a full-on fungal >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >I could make this rhyme -rather flog it, why pretend? >Oh it’s Summer time at the half way house again >Gotta make this rhyme my plugly just gooped -the end

Bb would sound good. Nah- I quit playing Jr. maestro a hundred originals ago. Go for it. Try  a V   I   iv    bm9.  Shit, fuck around. Long but good happy BDay.   F7  Bb  Ebm9  Abm9

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… you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer border towns near Syria. God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our prayers and love ride with you and your families. Greg

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> … you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a > popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of > those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer > border towns near Syria.

This is old news for those of us reading a decent paper. > God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our > prayers and love ride with you and your families.

If you love our soldiers, bring them home! __ Steve .

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>> … you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people > in a > popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming > out of > those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – > murderer > border towns near Syria. > This is old news for those of us reading a decent paper.

Glad to see you agree with me what with all this being old news, but it was just announced again this weekend as a result of liberations from last month’s offensive. > God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in > the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, > our > prayers and love ride with you and your families. > If you love our soldiers, bring them home!

That is beyond my ability. Still, I agree – come home safe and come home soon. Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> __ > Steve > .

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Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… Well, I guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part as an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> … you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people > in a > popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming > out of > those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – > murderer > border towns near Syria. > This is old news for those of us reading a decent paper. > God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in > the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, > our > prayers and love ride with you and your families. > If you love our soldiers, bring them home! > __ > Steve > .

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> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… Well, I > guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part as > an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way.

Gotcha! Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if we had not invaded.  Saddam would have had a *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as we have… with help from the outsiders that we let in because we wanted a cheap war.   Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push your bullshit political agenda… you can’t resell Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure out it’s own shithole status without us, and our presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. __ Steve .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… > Well, > I > guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part > as > an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > Gotcha! > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > we had not invaded.  

Yeah, but the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. Now, they are out of power and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and their true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you agree? These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to carry the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized killers, but now with no gov’t to hide behind. > Saddam would have had a > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as > we have… with help from the outsiders that we > let in because we wanted a cheap war.  

I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and I doubt you do either. > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push > your bullshit political agenda…

Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting them know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil is goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant to say, right? >you can’t resell > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels.

The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to do the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they are also cowards. *But* – and this is really important! – my original message to our troops remains pure and untainted – Happy Father’s Day to you guys and come back safe and soon. We all love you and miss you and above all we THANK YOU! Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> __ > Steve > .

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The military is doing the right thing, doing their noble best in a futile situation — it’s their civilian bosses who can’t tell their assess from their elbows.  God bless the troops, fire Rummy for criminal incompetence, impeach Dumber’nyuh and Darth Cheney for putting them where they can’t possibly succeed, regardless of their skill and valor — and robbing thousands of American children of their parents. >… you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a >popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of >those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer >border towns near Syria. >God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the >military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our >prayers and love ride with you and your families. >Greg

       Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… >> Well, > I >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part >> as >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > Gotcha! > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > we had not invaded.   > Yeah, but

Hold on there, Tex! > the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the > atrocities were attributable to the gov’t.

No, once we invaded, and the government was toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not a Baathist, right? > Now, they are out of power > and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and their > true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you agree?

As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right now… and you have to allow for the fact that they were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are under occupation… gives them liscence to do all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds. > These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to carry > the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized killers, > but now with no gov’t to hide behind.

They weren’t doing things like suicide bombings, roadside improvised devices, etc… were they? Things are different now… you’re not dealing with the old government, you’re dealing with an insurgency supported from outside and inside the country.  Shake the ant farm, watch the mean ants sting each other. > Saddam would have had a > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as > we have… with help from the outsiders that we > let in because we wanted a cheap war.   > I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and I > doubt you do either.

I’m talking about mortality before and after the invasion… I assert it’s gone up.  Do you disagree? > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push > your bullshit political agenda… > Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting them > know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the > leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil is > goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant to > say, right?

See what I mean?  You *could* have wished everyone a HFD, *especially* those in service in Iraq… I wouldn’t have rankled at that.  Your bullshit title especially got to me… since there are bad things there now, then we are right to be over there.  Complete bullshit!  We caused many of the bad things going on now… every day, another 20 Iraqis *that like us* dead… I hate the Baathists, but invading, especially unilaterally, was the wrong thing to do.  We’ll be paying for that mistake for a long time. >you can’t resell > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. > The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to do > the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they are > also cowards.

What position did Zarqawi hold in the Baathist govt? > *But* – and this is really important! – my original message to our > troops remains pure and untainted – Happy Father’s Day to you guys and > come back safe and soon. We all love you and miss you and above all we > THANK YOU!

Can’t argue with that… and  to that I add… I’m sorry.  I’m sorry that we put you over there for no good reason. I’m trying to get you home soon. __ Steve happy father’s day .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… > >> Well, > > I > >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal > >> part as > >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > > Gotcha! > > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > > we had not invaded.   > Yeah, but > Hold on there, Tex! > the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the > atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. > No, once we invaded, and the government was > toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not > a Baathist, right?

I don’t know what political affiliation he holds, but I find it curious that the ruling political party in neighborhing Syria is the Baath party and that the overwhelming amount of support for the insurgency is coming over the Syrian border. I suspect that if Zarqawi has political leanings, it is now in the direction of the Baathists. > Now, they are out of power > and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and > their > true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you > agree? > As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right > now… and you have to allow for the fact that they > were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the > insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are > under occupation… gives them liscence to do > all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds.

True of the sympathizers, but not true of the majority of Iraqis. And now with the realization that because of their own stupidity of boycotting the elections, the Sunnis will be an under-represented   minority in the new government, their "last gasp" for power gorws more desperate. Even so, I doubt that the majority of Sunnis want bloodshed as their future, but a committed core does. > These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to > carry > the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized > killers, > but now with no gov’t to hide behind. > They weren’t doing things like suicide bombings, > roadside improvised devices, etc… were they? > Things are different now… you’re not dealing > with the old government, you’re dealing with > an insurgency supported from outside and inside > the country.  Shake the ant farm, watch the mean > ants sting each other.

That certainly is partly true. Agreed that we opened a beehive; now we have to deal with it – firmly and quickly. > > Saddam would have had a > > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as > > we have… with help from the outsiders that we > > let in because we wanted a cheap war.   > I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and > I > doubt you do either. > I’m talking about mortality before and after > the invasion… I assert it’s gone up.  Do you > disagree?

Yes, though I haven’t compared figures of Iraqi dead before and after to know if their mortality rate is worse now than before. It certainly is for us, though. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push > > your bullshit political agenda… > Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting > them > know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the > leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil > is > goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant > to > say, right? > See what I mean?  You *could* have wished everyone a > HFD, *especially* those in service in Iraq… I wouldn’t > have rankled at that.  Your bullshit title especially got > to me… since there are bad things there now, then we > are right to be over there.  Complete bullshit!  We caused > many of the bad things going on now… every day, another > 20 Iraqis *that like us* dead… I hate the Baathists, but > invading, especially unilaterally, was the wrong thing to > do.  We’ll be paying for that mistake for a long time.

I didn’t say it was the right thing to do because of what is happening today, but that now that we’re over there, we see what kind of people these "insurgents" truly are – they’re cowards, murderers, rapists, and sadists. There is nothing noble about their cause. They’ aren’t repelling invaders and crusaders; they’re murdering, raping, and torturing innocent Iraqi civilians just like they did before we toppled Hussein, only now they don’t have a gov’t to hide behind. > >you can’t resell > > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s > > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our > > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure > > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our > > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. > The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to > do > the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they > are > also cowards. > What position did Zarqawi hold in the Baathist govt?

I don’t know what if any his affiliation was or is. For sure, he’s an opportunist. We do know that he has a criminal past and now he  is simply attempting to raise that level of criminality to a new level… cutting heads off living beings, bombing innocent civilians… not the MO of a noble warrior, but the last gasp of an criminal. Heck, he’s not even Iraqi; he’s simply an opportunist criminal. Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> *But* – and this is really important! – my original message to our > troops remains pure and untainted – Happy Father’s Day to you guys > and > come back safe and soon. We all love you and miss you and above all > we > THANK YOU! > Can’t argue with that… and  to that I add… I’m sorry.  I’m > sorry that we put you over there for no good reason. I’m > trying to get you home soon. > __ > Steve > happy father’s day > .

Response:

> God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our > prayers and love ride with you and your families.

You don’t see the contradiction & confusion in your well-intended words – they sound like "Chistian (NOT) radio."  God does not bless, nor do prayers apply to, anyone who is unrepentantly committing evil, no matter who nor how nice they may be.  If you want to pray for any of them, you should pray that they are convicted to defect or that our leaders are forced to bring every one of them back immediately, or both. You also are not loving the familes of killed soldiers by saying or thinking such platitudes, because love is not feelings or thoughts or attitudes.  Love is instead a committment, backed by ACTIONS, which places another’s well-being above one’s own, and it usually does not feel warm and fuzzy, and it is usually unpopular, sacrificial and costly.  I can’t see that you or others who say these ear-pleasing things are DOING anything sacrificial and personally costly for these families – which might include taking actions, personal losses and persecution to help insure no more families have their men killed (or have them off killing others and "support it"). Actually loving these people could easily cause you to lose your job, your standing in the community, your gig, or maybe your health or even your life at the hands of the boys in your local bar.  Even the families themselves might punch you in the nose, or spit on you, and more. So you may want to think through what you are saying before stringing popular, "clean", "nice" words together and proclaiming them to people.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… >> >> Well, >> > I >> >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal >> >> part as >> >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. >> > Gotcha! >> > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so >> > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there >> > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if >> > we had not invaded.   >> Yeah, but > Hold on there, Tex! >> the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the >> atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. > No, once we invaded, and the government was > toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not > a Baathist, right? > I don’t know what political affiliation he holds, but I find it curious > that the ruling political party in neighborhing Syria is the Baath party > and that the overwhelming amount of support for the insurgency is coming > over the Syrian border. > I suspect that if Zarqawi has political leanings, it is now in the > direction of the Baathists.

The Baathists are secular… al Qaeda is fundie. Not an enduring marriage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Now, they are out of power >> and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and >> their >> true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you > agree? > As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right > now… and you have to allow for the fact that they > were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the > insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are > under occupation… gives them liscence to do > all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds. > True of the sympathizers, but not true of the majority of Iraqis. And > now with the realization that because of their own stupidity of > boycotting the elections, the Sunnis will be an under-represented   > minority in the new government, their "last gasp" for power gorws more > desperate. Even so, I doubt that the majority of Sunnis want bloodshed > as their future, but a committed core does.

In that case, they should be able to sort their problems in a jiffy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to > carry >> the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized > killers, >> but now with no gov’t to hide behind. > They weren’t doing things like suicide bombings, > roadside improvised devices, etc… were they? > Things are different now… you’re not dealing > with the old government, you’re dealing with > an insurgency supported from outside and inside > the country.  Shake the ant farm, watch the mean > ants sting each other. > That certainly is partly true. Agreed that we opened a beehive; now we > have to deal with it – firmly and quickly.

My experience…. run, run fast. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Saddam would have had a >> > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as >> > we have… with help from the outsiders that we >> > let in because we wanted a cheap war.   >> I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and >> I >> doubt you do either. > I’m talking about mortality before and after > the invasion… I assert it’s gone up.  Do you > disagree? > Yes, though I haven’t compared figures of Iraqi dead before and after to > know if their mortality rate is worse now than before. It certainly is > for us, though.

Actually, including the mortality from the sanctions, the figures might be near each other… but we have certainly taken over from Saddam in the Iraqi extermination department… with help from the rebels. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push >> > your bullshit political agenda… >> Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting > them >> know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the >> leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil > is >> goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant > to >> say, right? > See what I mean?  You *could* have wished everyone a > HFD, *especially* those in service in Iraq… I wouldn’t > have rankled at that.  Your bullshit title especially got > to me… since there are bad things there now, then we > are right to be over there.  Complete bullshit!  We caused > many of the bad things going on now… every day, another > 20 Iraqis *that like us* dead… I hate the Baathists, but > invading, especially unilaterally, was the wrong thing to > do.  We’ll be paying for that mistake for a long time. > I didn’t say it was the right thing to do because of what is happening > today, but that now that we’re over there, we see what kind of people > these "insurgents" truly are – they’re cowards, murderers, rapists, and > sadists. There is nothing noble about their cause. They’ aren’t > repelling invaders and crusaders; they’re murdering, raping, and > torturing innocent Iraqi civilians just like they did before we toppled > Hussein, only now they don’t have a gov’t to hide behind.

So what?  Not our problem… Sudan is much worse. If it’s about saving lives, then Sudan would have been better to invade. I’m sure we all realize that Iraq was not sold as a liberation… at no time was this a primary consideration, especially considering the ludicrously optimistic initial investment of personnel and hardware. There was a contingency plan for the invasion of Iraq… it had been drawn up years in advance. The entire plan was scrapped as unsaleable… to do it right would have cost too much, even with the idiotic impetus of 9/11.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >you can’t resell >> > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s >> > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our >> > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure >> > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our >> > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. >> The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to > do >> the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they > are >> also cowards. > What position did Zarqawi hold in the Baathist govt? > I don’t know what if any his affiliation was or is. For sure, he’s an > opportunist. We do know that he has a criminal past and now he  is > simply attempting to raise that level of criminality to a new level… > cutting heads off living beings, bombing innocent civilians… not the > MO of a noble warrior, but the last gasp of an criminal. Heck, he’s not > even Iraqi; he’s simply an opportunist criminal.

Let me clue you in… Zarqawi was not in Iraq until after the  invasion… he was one of the jihadis that came afterward. The Baathists are thugs… al Qaeda is idealistic.  Thugs can’t get people to suicide bomb… mullahs can.  It’s a marriage made in hell… only united by an enemy.  If we leave, the targets will be gone, and the country can get on with policing itself. We’ve done enough for them… we can’t guarantee their security from now on, we need to get out of our current (Taiwan, S.Korea) entanglements anyway. I’ll clue everybody in… we’re there to stay.  We can’t let Iran get it’s hands on the resources of Iraq… we’d be over a barrel then.  There are no plans for withdrawal anytime soon… so the military will keep sacrificing, so we can drive Hummers. __ Steve .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… > >> Well, > > I > >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part > >> as > >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > > Gotcha! > > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > > we had not invaded.   > Yeah, but >Hold on there, Tex! > the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the > atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. >No, once we invaded, and the government was >toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not >a Baathist, right? > Now, they are out of power > and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and their > true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you agree? >As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right >now… and you have to allow for the fact that they >were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the >insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are >under occupation… gives them liscence to do >all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds.

The United States has invaded Iraq without cause or provocation other than what may be in that vacuum GW calls a head.  The Iraqi freedom fighters have the obligation to their country and the moral right to do anything they fucking well please to anyone in a foreign uniform who is firing on an Iraqi citizen.  As for the puppet government that was ‘democratically’ installed (at the end of a gun barrel), it has no more credibility than the Vichy government had for Nazi Germany. Hitler didn’t get it except at great expense and it looks like GW isn’t going to either. <snip> Ken Wilson Amer. Dlx. Tele, Gary Moore LP, LP DC Classic w/P90s, Jeff Beck Strat, Morgan OM Acoustic, Rick 360/12, Std. Strat (MIM), Mesa 100 Nomad, Mesa F-30 "Goodnight Austin, Texas, wherever you are."

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courageously avow: >… you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a >popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of >those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer >border towns near Syria. >God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the >military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our >prayers and love ride with you and your families. >Greg

And may you say many more prayers for the fallen Americans as they continue to die for this plundering of Iraq.  How about a prayer or two for all the innocent Iraqi fathers your uniformed murderers have killed. Ken Wilson Amer. Dlx. Tele, Gary Moore LP, LP DC Classic w/P90s, Jeff Beck Strat, Morgan OM Acoustic, Rick 360/12, Std. Strat (MIM), Mesa 100 Nomad, Mesa F-30 "Goodnight Austin, Texas, wherever you are."

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… you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer border towns near Syria. God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our prayers and love ride with you and your families. Greg

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> … you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a > popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of > those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer > border towns near Syria.

This is old news for those of us reading a decent paper. > God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our > prayers and love ride with you and your families.

If you love our soldiers, bring them home! __ Steve .

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>> … you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people > in a > popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming > out of > those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – > murderer > border towns near Syria. > This is old news for those of us reading a decent paper.

Glad to see you agree with me what with all this being old news, but it was just announced again this weekend as a result of liberations from last month’s offensive. > God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in > the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, > our > prayers and love ride with you and your families. > If you love our soldiers, bring them home!

That is beyond my ability. Still, I agree – come home safe and come home soon. Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> __ > Steve > .

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Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… Well, I guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part as an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> … you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people > in a > popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming > out of > those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – > murderer > border towns near Syria. > This is old news for those of us reading a decent paper. > God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in > the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, > our > prayers and love ride with you and your families. > If you love our soldiers, bring them home! > __ > Steve > .

Response:

> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… Well, I > guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part as > an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way.

Gotcha! Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if we had not invaded.  Saddam would have had a *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as we have… with help from the outsiders that we let in because we wanted a cheap war.   Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push your bullshit political agenda… you can’t resell Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure out it’s own shithole status without us, and our presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. __ Steve .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… > Well, > I > guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part > as > an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > Gotcha! > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > we had not invaded.  

Yeah, but the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. Now, they are out of power and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and their true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you agree? These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to carry the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized killers, but now with no gov’t to hide behind. > Saddam would have had a > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as > we have… with help from the outsiders that we > let in because we wanted a cheap war.  

I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and I doubt you do either. > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push > your bullshit political agenda…

Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting them know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil is goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant to say, right? >you can’t resell > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels.

The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to do the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they are also cowards. *But* – and this is really important! – my original message to our troops remains pure and untainted – Happy Father’s Day to you guys and come back safe and soon. We all love you and miss you and above all we THANK YOU! Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> __ > Steve > .

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The military is doing the right thing, doing their noble best in a futile situation — it’s their civilian bosses who can’t tell their assess from their elbows.  God bless the troops, fire Rummy for criminal incompetence, impeach Dumber’nyuh and Darth Cheney for putting them where they can’t possibly succeed, regardless of their skill and valor — and robbing thousands of American children of their parents. >… you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a >popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of >those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer >border towns near Syria. >God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the >military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our >prayers and love ride with you and your families. >Greg

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… >> Well, > I >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part >> as >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > Gotcha! > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > we had not invaded.   > Yeah, but

Hold on there, Tex! > the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the > atrocities were attributable to the gov’t.

No, once we invaded, and the government was toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not a Baathist, right? > Now, they are out of power > and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and their > true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you agree?

As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right now… and you have to allow for the fact that they were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are under occupation… gives them liscence to do all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds. > These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to carry > the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized killers, > but now with no gov’t to hide behind.

They weren’t doing things like suicide bombings, roadside improvised devices, etc… were they? Things are different now… you’re not dealing with the old government, you’re dealing with an insurgency supported from outside and inside the country.  Shake the ant farm, watch the mean ants sting each other. > Saddam would have had a > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as > we have… with help from the outsiders that we > let in because we wanted a cheap war.   > I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and I > doubt you do either.

I’m talking about mortality before and after the invasion… I assert it’s gone up.  Do you disagree? > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push > your bullshit political agenda… > Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting them > know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the > leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil is > goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant to > say, right?

See what I mean?  You *could* have wished everyone a HFD, *especially* those in service in Iraq… I wouldn’t have rankled at that.  Your bullshit title especially got to me… since there are bad things there now, then we are right to be over there.  Complete bullshit!  We caused many of the bad things going on now… every day, another 20 Iraqis *that like us* dead… I hate the Baathists, but invading, especially unilaterally, was the wrong thing to do.  We’ll be paying for that mistake for a long time. >you can’t resell > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. > The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to do > the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they are > also cowards.

What position did Zarqawi hold in the Baathist govt? > *But* – and this is really important! – my original message to our > troops remains pure and untainted – Happy Father’s Day to you guys and > come back safe and soon. We all love you and miss you and above all we > THANK YOU!

Can’t argue with that… and  to that I add… I’m sorry.  I’m sorry that we put you over there for no good reason. I’m trying to get you home soon. __ Steve happy father’s day .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… > >> Well, > > I > >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal > >> part as > >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > > Gotcha! > > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > > we had not invaded.   > Yeah, but > Hold on there, Tex! > the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the > atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. > No, once we invaded, and the government was > toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not > a Baathist, right?

I don’t know what political affiliation he holds, but I find it curious that the ruling political party in neighborhing Syria is the Baath party and that the overwhelming amount of support for the insurgency is coming over the Syrian border. I suspect that if Zarqawi has political leanings, it is now in the direction of the Baathists. > Now, they are out of power > and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and > their > true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you > agree? > As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right > now… and you have to allow for the fact that they > were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the > insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are > under occupation… gives them liscence to do > all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds.

True of the sympathizers, but not true of the majority of Iraqis. And now with the realization that because of their own stupidity of boycotting the elections, the Sunnis will be an under-represented   minority in the new government, their "last gasp" for power gorws more desperate. Even so, I doubt that the majority of Sunnis want bloodshed as their future, but a committed core does. > These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to > carry > the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized > killers, > but now with no gov’t to hide behind. > They weren’t doing things like suicide bombings, > roadside improvised devices, etc… were they? > Things are different now… you’re not dealing > with the old government, you’re dealing with > an insurgency supported from outside and inside > the country.  Shake the ant farm, watch the mean > ants sting each other.

That certainly is partly true. Agreed that we opened a beehive; now we have to deal with it – firmly and quickly. > > Saddam would have had a > > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as > > we have… with help from the outsiders that we > > let in because we wanted a cheap war.   > I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and > I > doubt you do either. > I’m talking about mortality before and after > the invasion… I assert it’s gone up.  Do you > disagree?

Yes, though I haven’t compared figures of Iraqi dead before and after to know if their mortality rate is worse now than before. It certainly is for us, though. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push > > your bullshit political agenda… > Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting > them > know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the > leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil > is > goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant > to > say, right? > See what I mean?  You *could* have wished everyone a > HFD, *especially* those in service in Iraq… I wouldn’t > have rankled at that.  Your bullshit title especially got > to me… since there are bad things there now, then we > are right to be over there.  Complete bullshit!  We caused > many of the bad things going on now… every day, another > 20 Iraqis *that like us* dead… I hate the Baathists, but > invading, especially unilaterally, was the wrong thing to > do.  We’ll be paying for that mistake for a long time.

I didn’t say it was the right thing to do because of what is happening today, but that now that we’re over there, we see what kind of people these "insurgents" truly are – they’re cowards, murderers, rapists, and sadists. There is nothing noble about their cause. They’ aren’t repelling invaders and crusaders; they’re murdering, raping, and torturing innocent Iraqi civilians just like they did before we toppled Hussein, only now they don’t have a gov’t to hide behind. > >you can’t resell > > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s > > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our > > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure > > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our > > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. > The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to > do > the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they > are > also cowards. > What position did Zarqawi hold in the Baathist govt?

I don’t know what if any his affiliation was or is. For sure, he’s an opportunist. We do know that he has a criminal past and now he  is simply attempting to raise that level of criminality to a new level… cutting heads off living beings, bombing innocent civilians… not the MO of a noble warrior, but the last gasp of an criminal. Heck, he’s not even Iraqi; he’s simply an opportunist criminal. Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> *But* – and this is really important! – my original message to our > troops remains pure and untainted – Happy Father’s Day to you guys > and > come back safe and soon. We all love you and miss you and above all > we > THANK YOU! > Can’t argue with that… and  to that I add… I’m sorry.  I’m > sorry that we put you over there for no good reason. I’m > trying to get you home soon. > __ > Steve > happy father’s day > .

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> God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the > military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our > prayers and love ride with you and your families.

You don’t see the contradiction & confusion in your well-intended words – they sound like "Chistian (NOT) radio."  God does not bless, nor do prayers apply to, anyone who is unrepentantly committing evil, no matter who nor how nice they may be.  If you want to pray for any of them, you should pray that they are convicted to defect or that our leaders are forced to bring every one of them back immediately, or both. You also are not loving the familes of killed soldiers by saying or thinking such platitudes, because love is not feelings or thoughts or attitudes.  Love is instead a committment, backed by ACTIONS, which places another’s well-being above one’s own, and it usually does not feel warm and fuzzy, and it is usually unpopular, sacrificial and costly.  I can’t see that you or others who say these ear-pleasing things are DOING anything sacrificial and personally costly for these families – which might include taking actions, personal losses and persecution to help insure no more families have their men killed (or have them off killing others and "support it"). Actually loving these people could easily cause you to lose your job, your standing in the community, your gig, or maybe your health or even your life at the hands of the boys in your local bar.  Even the families themselves might punch you in the nose, or spit on you, and more. So you may want to think through what you are saying before stringing popular, "clean", "nice" words together and proclaiming them to people.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… >> >> Well, >> > I >> >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal >> >> part as >> >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. >> > Gotcha! >> > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so >> > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there >> > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if >> > we had not invaded.   >> Yeah, but > Hold on there, Tex! >> the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the >> atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. > No, once we invaded, and the government was > toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not > a Baathist, right? > I don’t know what political affiliation he holds, but I find it curious > that the ruling political party in neighborhing Syria is the Baath party > and that the overwhelming amount of support for the insurgency is coming > over the Syrian border. > I suspect that if Zarqawi has political leanings, it is now in the > direction of the Baathists.

The Baathists are secular… al Qaeda is fundie. Not an enduring marriage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Now, they are out of power >> and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and >> their >> true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you > agree? > As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right > now… and you have to allow for the fact that they > were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the > insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are > under occupation… gives them liscence to do > all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds. > True of the sympathizers, but not true of the majority of Iraqis. And > now with the realization that because of their own stupidity of > boycotting the elections, the Sunnis will be an under-represented   > minority in the new government, their "last gasp" for power gorws more > desperate. Even so, I doubt that the majority of Sunnis want bloodshed > as their future, but a committed core does.

In that case, they should be able to sort their problems in a jiffy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> These aren’t religious zealots, though the poor SOB’s they get to > carry >> the bombs may be, but the masterminds aren’t. They’re organized > killers, >> but now with no gov’t to hide behind. > They weren’t doing things like suicide bombings, > roadside improvised devices, etc… were they? > Things are different now… you’re not dealing > with the old government, you’re dealing with > an insurgency supported from outside and inside > the country.  Shake the ant farm, watch the mean > ants sting each other. > That certainly is partly true. Agreed that we opened a beehive; now we > have to deal with it – firmly and quickly.

My experience…. run, run fast. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Saddam would have had a >> > *damn* hard time to kill as many of his people as >> > we have… with help from the outsiders that we >> > let in because we wanted a cheap war.   >> I dunno about that ’cause I’m not sure exactly to what you refer and >> I >> doubt you do either. > I’m talking about mortality before and after > the invasion… I assert it’s gone up.  Do you > disagree? > Yes, though I haven’t compared figures of Iraqi dead before and after to > know if their mortality rate is worse now than before. It certainly is > for us, though.

Actually, including the mortality from the sanctions, the figures might be near each other… but we have certainly taken over from Saddam in the Iraqi extermination department… with help from the rebels. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Don’t use Father’s Day as an excuse to push >> > your bullshit political agenda… >> Yadda-yadda… wishing our troops a Happy Father’s day and letting > them >> know we love them isn’t a political agenda unless you ascribe to the >> leftist philosophy where darkness is light, lies are truth, and evil > is >> goodness, then perhaps it is. Nut I’m sure that’s not what you meant > to >> say, right? > See what I mean?  You *could* have wished everyone a > HFD, *especially* those in service in Iraq… I wouldn’t > have rankled at that.  Your bullshit title especially got > to me… since there are bad things there now, then we > are right to be over there.  Complete bullshit!  We caused > many of the bad things going on now… every day, another > 20 Iraqis *that like us* dead… I hate the Baathists, but > invading, especially unilaterally, was the wrong thing to > do.  We’ll be paying for that mistake for a long time. > I didn’t say it was the right thing to do because of what is happening > today, but that now that we’re over there, we see what kind of people > these "insurgents" truly are – they’re cowards, murderers, rapists, and > sadists. There is nothing noble about their cause. They’ aren’t > repelling invaders and crusaders; they’re murdering, raping, and > torturing innocent Iraqi civilians just like they did before we toppled > Hussein, only now they don’t have a gov’t to hide behind.

So what?  Not our problem… Sudan is much worse. If it’s about saving lives, then Sudan would have been better to invade. I’m sure we all realize that Iraq was not sold as a liberation… at no time was this a primary consideration, especially considering the ludicrously optimistic initial investment of personnel and hardware. There was a contingency plan for the invasion of Iraq… it had been drawn up years in advance. The entire plan was scrapped as unsaleable… to do it right would have cost too much, even with the idiotic impetus of 9/11.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >you can’t resell >> > Iraq based on a sunshine story, all the data’s >> > coming home to roost.  If you *really* love our >> > troops, bring ‘em home *now*… Iraq can figure >> > out it’s own shithole status without us, and our >> > presence there just serves to polarize the rebels. >> The rebels are the former gov’t with poor SOB’s they are importing to > do >> the dying. So not only are they murderers, rapists, and sadist, they > are >> also cowards. > What position did Zarqawi hold in the Baathist govt? > I don’t know what if any his affiliation was or is. For sure, he’s an > opportunist. We do know that he has a criminal past and now he  is > simply attempting to raise that level of criminality to a new level… > cutting heads off living beings, bombing innocent civilians… not the > MO of a noble warrior, but the last gasp of an criminal. Heck, he’s not > even Iraqi; he’s simply an opportunist criminal.

Let me clue you in… Zarqawi was not in Iraq until after the  invasion… he was one of the jihadis that came afterward. The Baathists are thugs… al Qaeda is idealistic.  Thugs can’t get people to suicide bomb… mullahs can.  It’s a marriage made in hell… only united by an enemy.  If we leave, the targets will be gone, and the country can get on with policing itself. We’ve done enough for them… we can’t guarantee their security from now on, we need to get out of our current (Taiwan, S.Korea) entanglements anyway. I’ll clue everybody in… we’re there to stay.  We can’t let Iran get it’s hands on the resources of Iraq… we’d be over a barrel then.  There are no plans for withdrawal anytime soon… so the military will keep sacrificing, so we can drive Hummers. __ Steve .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Ha! Just noticed – you changed the heading to grinding an axe… > >> Well, > > I > >> guess you did just that, huh? Next time, though, use the metal part > >> as > >> an axe instead of a handle. Works better that way. > > Gotcha! > > Anyway…. we’re over there shaking the ant farm, so > > saying that we’re doing the right thing by being there > > is circular logic… there would be no ‘insurgency’ if > > we had not invaded.   > Yeah, but >Hold on there, Tex! > the insurgents were in power at that time, so that the > atrocities were attributable to the gov’t. >No, once we invaded, and the government was >toppled, then chaos ensued.  Zarqawi was not >a Baathist, right? > Now, they are out of power > and can no longer hide behind the government they once owned and their > true colors now show – murderers, rapists, sadists, wouldn’t you agree? >As I said, not entirely clear who the leadership is right >now… and you have to allow for the fact that they >were invaded.  The way the Sunnis see it, the >insurgents are ‘freedom fighters’, and they are >under occupation… gives them liscence to do >all kinds of stuff, at least in their minds.

The United States has invaded Iraq without cause or provocation other than what may be in that vacuum GW calls a head.  The Iraqi freedom fighters have the obligation to their country and the moral right to do anything they fucking well please to anyone in a foreign uniform who is firing on an Iraqi citizen.  As for the puppet government that was ‘democratically’ installed (at the end of a gun barrel), it has no more credibility than the Vichy government had for Nazi Germany. Hitler didn’t get it except at great expense and it looks like GW isn’t going to either. <snip> Ken Wilson Amer. Dlx. Tele, Gary Moore LP, LP DC Classic w/P90s, Jeff Beck Strat, Morgan OM Acoustic, Rick 360/12, Std. Strat (MIM), Mesa 100 Nomad, Mesa F-30 "Goodnight Austin, Texas, wherever you are."

Response:

courageously avow: >… you see the headline today of a suicide bomber killing 23 people in a >popular eatery in Iraq *and* you hear the stories of torture coming out of >those liberated from those border Iraqi insurgent – excuse me – murderer >border towns near Syria. >God bless and a hearty Happy Father’s day to all you dads serving in the >military. And for those of you who have given the ultimate sacrifice, our >prayers and love ride with you and your families. >Greg

And may you say many more prayers for the fallen Americans as they continue to die for this plundering of Iraq.  How about a prayer or two for all the innocent Iraqi fathers your uniformed murderers have killed. Ken Wilson Amer. Dlx. Tele, Gary Moore LP, LP DC Classic w/P90s, Jeff Beck Strat, Morgan OM Acoustic, Rick 360/12, Std. Strat (MIM), Mesa 100 Nomad, Mesa F-30 "Goodnight Austin, Texas, wherever you are."

Response:

> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for > hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more > trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The > Ft. Collins operation is the reverse.

Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non government funded source, or some other alternative?

Response:

> > Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for > hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more > trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The > Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. > Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service > employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted > the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would > you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to > protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) > inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non > government funded source, or some other alternative?

I use all possible sources. Some of the finest forecasts come from non-governmental sources, but that’s because they concentrate on a very specific area. If you happen to be there, that’s great. Note that the NWS forecasts, particularly the discussions, are each "signed" by the particular forecaster.  It’s as much an art as science. Even when most of the programs say one thing, they’ll often point out another’s results. The only bias is that they tend to err on the side of caution, and that’s a GOOD thing. And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated. — Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux (‘73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan’s Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for >> hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more >> trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The >> Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. > Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service > employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted > the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would > you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to > protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) > inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non > government funded source, or some other alternative? > I use all possible sources. Some of the finest forecasts come from > non-governmental sources, but that’s because they concentrate on a very > specific area. If you happen to be there, that’s great. > Note that the NWS forecasts, particularly the discussions, are each > "signed" by the particular forecaster.  It’s as much an art as science. > Even when most of the programs say one thing, they’ll often point out > another’s results. The only bias is that they tend to err on the side of > caution, and that’s a GOOD thing.

True about art/science. Bob Smith mentioned something about "The experts are predicting more frequent and more violent such storms for the next decade with the Caribbean and southeastern coast of the U.S. to be hit often" and "They said because of the location of the Bermuda high for the next decade to batten down the hatches". That got me thinking about what that meant, I still don’t rightly know, and this whole issue of predicting and who is doing it and what agendas they might have. Since one could always say, "It’s the weather, unpredictable." Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy? > And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated.

Yes, in this case I was more referring to those who cannot evac themselves due to age, incapacitation, hospitalization, etc. There is no real plan for them in the Gulf states in America.

Response:

I think the "Bermuda High" is a high pressure system and its location determines in what direction hurricanes approaching will travel. Allegedly it is situated at this time where it pushes the storms towards the Southeastern U.S. Who really knows except my sister-in-law who thinks she is the second coming.

Response:

> I think the "Bermuda High" is a high pressure system and its location > determines in what direction hurricanes approaching will travel. > Allegedly it is situated at this time where it pushes the storms towards > the Southeastern U.S. > Who really knows except my sister-in-law who thinks she is the second > coming.

Thanks, and yeah, I got one of those too. Last time she came, she left and I told her to never "come" back.

Response:

I love it Chrissy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for > hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more > trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The > Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. > Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service > employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted > the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would > you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to > protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) > inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non > government funded source, or some other alternative?

If you want to TRACK hurricanes, once they have been sighted, those agencies and fellas do a pretty good job of tracking them. If you want to PREDICT hurricanes, you need Carnack and his crystal ball. NWS can’t even predicct rain or no rain the next day.  :-) And then when I soaking wet by rain, they would predict a 90% chance of rain. Someone asked if anyone keeps record on the correctness of prediction. I do, on the media clairvoyant quacks.  The would typically make a hundred outlandish predictions.  If one of them came true, they become famous, and got invited to make more predictions.  Nobody remembered the 99 predictions then missed (out of the 100). That’s the way the game is played. I predict the next Pope will be 71 years old, never had SEX (or admitted publicly anyway), but will make dogmatic, "infallible" declarations about sex-related social problems such as "birth control", "abortion", and other issues of which he has no first hand knowledge or experience. Want other predictions?  :-) — Bob.

Response:

While I pointed out that the fellow at Ft Collins isn’t a Weather Service employee, that was intended as a clarification, not to belittle him.  I thought other postings indicated that the Ft Collins operation was a NWS outpost. The fellow at Ft Collins is a professor at Colo. State U. and his predictions come from a research project. http://typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu/

Response:

> Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy?

The NWS keeps statistics of how closely their predictions match the actual tracks for various periods of time. They’ve gotten confident enough in the new models to extend the predictions another two days, and their area of uncertainty is somewhat smaller. I believe they did that extension just this past season. That they missed landfall by only 30-50 miles most of the time is a real breakthrough, considering some of these storms looped around on themselves. As far as long term predictions go, specifically the Bermuda High. Bob Smith got it partially right. The Bermuda High is a persistant area of high pressure, which tends to steer weather patterns depending on its strength at a particular time in relation to the trade and other winds, including the jet stream. There are various other factors that affect both the Bermuda High and trade winds, including the weather over the Sahara and in the Pacific (El Nino & his little sister). They, in their turn, are affected by other weather patterns. After you study it for a bit (as most interested in long-distance sailing do), you start believing in the "Butterfly Effect" where the flap of a butterfly’s wings causes something to happen (or not) in East Podunk. — Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux (‘73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan’s Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Response:

The cow and I have a cruise scheduked for Sept 17 from Ft Lauderdale. What if theie is a hurricane?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy? > The NWS keeps statistics of how closely their predictions match the > actual tracks for various periods of time. They’ve gotten confident > enough in the new models to extend the predictions another two days, and > their area of uncertainty is somewhat smaller. I believe they did that > extension just this past season. > That they missed landfall by only 30-50 miles most of the time is a real > breakthrough, considering some of these storms looped around on > themselves. > As far as long term predictions go, specifically the Bermuda High. Bob > Smith got it partially right. The Bermuda High is a persistant area of > high pressure, which tends to steer weather patterns depending on its > strength at a particular time in relation to the trade and other winds, > including the jet stream. There are various other factors that affect > both the Bermuda High and trade winds, including the weather over the > Sahara and in the Pacific (El Nino & his little sister). They, in their > turn, are affected by other weather patterns. > After you study it for a bit (as most interested in long-distance > sailing do), you start believing in the "Butterfly Effect" where the > flap of a butterfly’s wings causes something to happen (or not) in East > Podunk. > — > Jere Lull > Xan-a-Deux (‘73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) > Xan’s Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html > Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Response:

> As far as long term predictions go, specifically the Bermuda High. Bob > Smith got it partially right. The Bermuda High is a persistant area of > high pressure, which tends to steer weather patterns depending on its > strength at a particular time in relation to the trade and other winds, > including the jet stream. There are various other factors that affect > both the Bermuda High and trade winds, including the weather over the > Sahara and in the Pacific (El Nino & his little sister). They, in their > turn, are affected by other weather patterns. > After you study it for a bit (as most interested in long-distance > sailing do), you start believing in the "Butterfly Effect" where the > flap of a butterfly’s wings causes something to happen (or not) in East > Podunk.

LOL "The ankle bone is connected to the shin bone, the shin bone is connected

Response:

Clint, unless the hurricane is ravaging Ft. Lauderdale Sept. 17th your ship will set sail. If a hurricane is threatening the Caribbean they may have to change venue and put in to ports of call not originally planned if the originally scheduled ports are in a dangerous situation. This won’t matter much to you because your short stay in the various islands will not afford you the opportunity to really do any extensive touring anyway. Your basic visit will comprise of walking the streets of the various downtown areas and shopping in stores for native Caribbean crafts made in Hong Kong. My friend is an experienced cruiser and he rarely gets off the ship when it is in port because he says one downtown looks like the other. "The good Lord willing and the creek don’t rise I’ll be seeing you agin real soon".

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for >>> hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more >>> trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The >>> Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. >> Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service >> employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted >> the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would >> you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to >> protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) >> inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non >> government funded source, or some other alternative? > I use all possible sources. Some of the finest forecasts come from > non-governmental sources, but that’s because they concentrate on a very > specific area. If you happen to be there, that’s great. > Note that the NWS forecasts, particularly the discussions, are each > "signed" by the particular forecaster.  It’s as much an art as science. > Even when most of the programs say one thing, they’ll often point out > another’s results. The only bias is that they tend to err on the side of > caution, and that’s a GOOD thing. >True about art/science. Bob Smith mentioned something about "The experts >are predicting more frequent and more violent such storms for the next >decade with the Caribbean and southeastern coast of the U.S. to be hit >often" and "They said because of the location of the Bermuda >high for the next decade to batten down the hatches". >That got me thinking about what that meant, I still don’t rightly know, and >this whole issue of predicting and who is doing it and what agendas they >might have. Since one could always say, "It’s the weather, unpredictable." >Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy?

Yes, Ocean Navigator magazine has tracked predictions v. actuals for quite a while, now.  They also had an article several years ago discussing the weather oscillations (usch El Nino Seasonal Oscillaiton or ENSO).  These major systems greatly affect the weather in an area. I’ll dig the article up and hopefully be able to post a link to it. Or at least excerpt some stuff pertaining to Caribbean storms. > And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated. >Yes, in this case I was more referring to those who cannot evac themselves >due to age, incapacitation, hospitalization, etc. There is no real plan for >them in the Gulf states in America.

Sure there are.  They’re called prayer circles. — dillon Women should be obscene and not absurd.

Response:

<snip> >That’s the way the game is played. >I predict the next Pope will be 71 years old, never had SEX (or >admitted publicly anyway), but will make dogmatic, "infallible" >declarations about sex-related social problems such as "birth >control", "abortion", and other issues of which he has no first >hand knowledge or experience. >Want other predictions?  :-) >– Bob.

What gender will the Pope be? — dillon Women should be obscene and not absurd.

Response:

>>That got me thinking about what that meant, I still don’t rightly know, and >this whole issue of predicting and who is doing it and what agendas they >might have. Since one could always say, "It’s the weather, unpredictable." >Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy? > Yes, Ocean Navigator magazine has tracked predictions v. actuals for > quite a while, now.  They also had an article several years ago > discussing the weather oscillations (usch El Nino Seasonal Oscillaiton > or ENSO).  These major systems greatly affect the weather in an area. > I’ll dig the article up and hopefully be able to post a link to it. > Or at least excerpt some stuff pertaining to Caribbean storms.

Thanks, Dillon, much appreciated. >> And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated. >Yes, in this case I was more referring to those who cannot evac themselves >due to age, incapacitation, hospitalization, etc. There is no real plan for >them in the Gulf states in America. > Sure there are.  They’re called prayer circles.

Are those like crop circles? maybe?

Response:

>>Want other predictions?  :-) >– Bob. > What gender will the Pope be?

I know! I know! <waving at back of class>

Response:

>>>Want other predictions?  :-) >>– Bob. > What gender will the Pope be? >I know! I know! ><waving at back of class>

Well, I know that the Pope will not be a "man". — dillon Women should be obscene and not absurd.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Want other predictions?  :-) >>>– Bob. >> What gender will the Pope be? >I know! I know! ><waving at back of class> > Well, I know that the Pope will not be a "man".

That brings up the interesting question of what are the NECESSARY qualifications for a Catholic Pope? A former Catholic nun did a scholarly piece of biblical history about the Pope in http://www.catholicconcerns.com/Popes.html Prior to Pope Gregory VII, *>  There is one Biblical qualification for being a bishop which *>  most popes have not met since the first few centuries of the *>  church. The Apostle Paul said, *> *>  "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife…" *>  (1 Timothy 3:1, emphasis added) While the Pope will not be a "man" in dillon’s non-biological sense, who is going to give the new Pope the Olympic Games test for "sex", or what biblical source ruled that the Pope cannot be a hermaphodite! — Bob.

Response:

> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for > hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more > trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The > Ft. Collins operation is the reverse.

Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non government funded source, or some other alternative?

Response:

> > Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for > hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more > trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The > Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. > Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service > employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted > the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would > you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to > protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) > inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non > government funded source, or some other alternative?

I use all possible sources. Some of the finest forecasts come from non-governmental sources, but that’s because they concentrate on a very specific area. If you happen to be there, that’s great. Note that the NWS forecasts, particularly the discussions, are each "signed" by the particular forecaster.  It’s as much an art as science. Even when most of the programs say one thing, they’ll often point out another’s results. The only bias is that they tend to err on the side of caution, and that’s a GOOD thing. And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated. — Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux (‘73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan’s Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for >> hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more >> trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The >> Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. > Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service > employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted > the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would > you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to > protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) > inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non > government funded source, or some other alternative? > I use all possible sources. Some of the finest forecasts come from > non-governmental sources, but that’s because they concentrate on a very > specific area. If you happen to be there, that’s great. > Note that the NWS forecasts, particularly the discussions, are each > "signed" by the particular forecaster.  It’s as much an art as science. > Even when most of the programs say one thing, they’ll often point out > another’s results. The only bias is that they tend to err on the side of > caution, and that’s a GOOD thing.

True about art/science. Bob Smith mentioned something about "The experts are predicting more frequent and more violent such storms for the next decade with the Caribbean and southeastern coast of the U.S. to be hit often" and "They said because of the location of the Bermuda high for the next decade to batten down the hatches". That got me thinking about what that meant, I still don’t rightly know, and this whole issue of predicting and who is doing it and what agendas they might have. Since one could always say, "It’s the weather, unpredictable." Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy? > And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated.

Yes, in this case I was more referring to those who cannot evac themselves due to age, incapacitation, hospitalization, etc. There is no real plan for them in the Gulf states in America.

Response:

I think the "Bermuda High" is a high pressure system and its location determines in what direction hurricanes approaching will travel. Allegedly it is situated at this time where it pushes the storms towards the Southeastern U.S. Who really knows except my sister-in-law who thinks she is the second coming.

Response:

> I think the "Bermuda High" is a high pressure system and its location > determines in what direction hurricanes approaching will travel. > Allegedly it is situated at this time where it pushes the storms towards > the Southeastern U.S. > Who really knows except my sister-in-law who thinks she is the second > coming.

Thanks, and yeah, I got one of those too. Last time she came, she left and I told her to never "come" back.

Response:

I love it Chrissy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for > hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more > trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The > Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. > Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service > employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted > the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would > you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to > protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) > inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non > government funded source, or some other alternative?

If you want to TRACK hurricanes, once they have been sighted, those agencies and fellas do a pretty good job of tracking them. If you want to PREDICT hurricanes, you need Carnack and his crystal ball. NWS can’t even predicct rain or no rain the next day.  :-) And then when I soaking wet by rain, they would predict a 90% chance of rain. Someone asked if anyone keeps record on the correctness of prediction. I do, on the media clairvoyant quacks.  The would typically make a hundred outlandish predictions.  If one of them came true, they become famous, and got invited to make more predictions.  Nobody remembered the 99 predictions then missed (out of the 100). That’s the way the game is played. I predict the next Pope will be 71 years old, never had SEX (or admitted publicly anyway), but will make dogmatic, "infallible" declarations about sex-related social problems such as "birth control", "abortion", and other issues of which he has no first hand knowledge or experience. Want other predictions?  :-) — Bob.

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While I pointed out that the fellow at Ft Collins isn’t a Weather Service employee, that was intended as a clarification, not to belittle him.  I thought other postings indicated that the Ft Collins operation was a NWS outpost. The fellow at Ft Collins is a professor at Colo. State U. and his predictions come from a research project. http://typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu/

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> Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy?

The NWS keeps statistics of how closely their predictions match the actual tracks for various periods of time. They’ve gotten confident enough in the new models to extend the predictions another two days, and their area of uncertainty is somewhat smaller. I believe they did that extension just this past season. That they missed landfall by only 30-50 miles most of the time is a real breakthrough, considering some of these storms looped around on themselves. As far as long term predictions go, specifically the Bermuda High. Bob Smith got it partially right. The Bermuda High is a persistant area of high pressure, which tends to steer weather patterns depending on its strength at a particular time in relation to the trade and other winds, including the jet stream. There are various other factors that affect both the Bermuda High and trade winds, including the weather over the Sahara and in the Pacific (El Nino & his little sister). They, in their turn, are affected by other weather patterns. After you study it for a bit (as most interested in long-distance sailing do), you start believing in the "Butterfly Effect" where the flap of a butterfly’s wings causes something to happen (or not) in East Podunk. — Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux (‘73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan’s Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

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The cow and I have a cruise scheduked for Sept 17 from Ft Lauderdale. What if theie is a hurricane?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy? > The NWS keeps statistics of how closely their predictions match the > actual tracks for various periods of time. They’ve gotten confident > enough in the new models to extend the predictions another two days, and > their area of uncertainty is somewhat smaller. I believe they did that > extension just this past season. > That they missed landfall by only 30-50 miles most of the time is a real > breakthrough, considering some of these storms looped around on > themselves. > As far as long term predictions go, specifically the Bermuda High. Bob > Smith got it partially right. The Bermuda High is a persistant area of > high pressure, which tends to steer weather patterns depending on its > strength at a particular time in relation to the trade and other winds, > including the jet stream. There are various other factors that affect > both the Bermuda High and trade winds, including the weather over the > Sahara and in the Pacific (El Nino & his little sister). They, in their > turn, are affected by other weather patterns. > After you study it for a bit (as most interested in long-distance > sailing do), you start believing in the "Butterfly Effect" where the > flap of a butterfly’s wings causes something to happen (or not) in East > Podunk. > — > Jere Lull > Xan-a-Deux (‘73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) > Xan’s Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html > Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

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> As far as long term predictions go, specifically the Bermuda High. Bob > Smith got it partially right. The Bermuda High is a persistant area of > high pressure, which tends to steer weather patterns depending on its > strength at a particular time in relation to the trade and other winds, > including the jet stream. There are various other factors that affect > both the Bermuda High and trade winds, including the weather over the > Sahara and in the Pacific (El Nino & his little sister). They, in their > turn, are affected by other weather patterns. > After you study it for a bit (as most interested in long-distance > sailing do), you start believing in the "Butterfly Effect" where the > flap of a butterfly’s wings causes something to happen (or not) in East > Podunk.

LOL "The ankle bone is connected to the shin bone, the shin bone is connected

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Clint, unless the hurricane is ravaging Ft. Lauderdale Sept. 17th your ship will set sail. If a hurricane is threatening the Caribbean they may have to change venue and put in to ports of call not originally planned if the originally scheduled ports are in a dangerous situation. This won’t matter much to you because your short stay in the various islands will not afford you the opportunity to really do any extensive touring anyway. Your basic visit will comprise of walking the streets of the various downtown areas and shopping in stores for native Caribbean crafts made in Hong Kong. My friend is an experienced cruiser and he rarely gets off the ship when it is in port because he says one downtown looks like the other. "The good Lord willing and the creek don’t rise I’ll be seeing you agin real soon".

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Yes, the Panhandle of Florida to the Texas coast is magnet for >>> hurricanes. Regarding the Miami Hurricane Center I believe they are more >>> trackers of existing storms rather than predictors of future storm. The >>> Ft. Collins operation is the reverse. >> Robert Carpenter asserted this man is not a National Weather Service >> employee (which does not necessarily diminish his work). But if you wanted >> the best, non biased hurricane predictions, for American interests, would >> you go to the NWS, knowing that it is a federal agency and might wish to >> protect this "oversight" of DHS and Office of Emergency Preparedness (OEP) >> inability to develop evac plans of any substance, or an independent, non >> government funded source, or some other alternative? > I use all possible sources. Some of the finest forecasts come from > non-governmental sources, but that’s because they concentrate on a very > specific area. If you happen to be there, that’s great. > Note that the NWS forecasts, particularly the discussions, are each > "signed" by the particular forecaster.  It’s as much an art as science. > Even when most of the programs say one thing, they’ll often point out > another’s results. The only bias is that they tend to err on the side of > caution, and that’s a GOOD thing. >True about art/science. Bob Smith mentioned something about "The experts >are predicting more frequent and more violent such storms for the next >decade with the Caribbean and southeastern coast of the U.S. to be hit >often" and "They said because of the location of the Bermuda >high for the next decade to batten down the hatches". >That got me thinking about what that meant, I still don’t rightly know, and >this whole issue of predicting and who is doing it and what agendas they >might have. Since one could always say, "It’s the weather, unpredictable." >Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy?

Yes, Ocean Navigator magazine has tracked predictions v. actuals for quite a while, now.  They also had an article several years ago discussing the weather oscillations (usch El Nino Seasonal Oscillaiton or ENSO).  These major systems greatly affect the weather in an area. I’ll dig the article up and hopefully be able to post a link to it. Or at least excerpt some stuff pertaining to Caribbean storms. > And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated. >Yes, in this case I was more referring to those who cannot evac themselves >due to age, incapacitation, hospitalization, etc. There is no real plan for >them in the Gulf states in America.

Sure there are.  They’re called prayer circles. — dillon Women should be obscene and not absurd.

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<snip> >That’s the way the game is played. >I predict the next Pope will be 71 years old, never had SEX (or >admitted publicly anyway), but will make dogmatic, "infallible" >declarations about sex-related social problems such as "birth >control", "abortion", and other issues of which he has no first >hand knowledge or experience. >Want other predictions?  :-) >– Bob.

What gender will the Pope be? — dillon Women should be obscene and not absurd.

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>>That got me thinking about what that meant, I still don’t rightly know, and >this whole issue of predicting and who is doing it and what agendas they >might have. Since one could always say, "It’s the weather, unpredictable." >Are you aware of anyone keeping score as to accuracy? > Yes, Ocean Navigator magazine has tracked predictions v. actuals for > quite a while, now.  They also had an article several years ago > discussing the weather oscillations (usch El Nino Seasonal Oscillaiton > or ENSO).  These major systems greatly affect the weather in an area. > I’ll dig the article up and hopefully be able to post a link to it. > Or at least excerpt some stuff pertaining to Caribbean storms.

Thanks, Dillon, much appreciated. >> And evac plans are only as good as the people being evacuated. >Yes, in this case I was more referring to those who cannot evac themselves >due to age, incapacitation, hospitalization, etc. There is no real plan for >them in the Gulf states in America. > Sure there are.  They’re called prayer circles.

Are those like crop circles? maybe?

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>>Want other predictions?  :-) >– Bob. > What gender will the Pope be?

I know! I know! <waving at back of class>

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>>>Want other predictions?  :-) >>– Bob. > What gender will the Pope be? >I know! I know! ><waving at back of class>

Well, I know that the Pope will not be a "man". — dillon Women should be obscene and not absurd.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Want other predictions?  :-) >>>– Bob. >> What gender will the Pope be? >I know! I know! ><waving at back of class> > Well, I know that the Pope will not be a "man".

That brings up the interesting question of what are the NECESSARY qualifications for a Catholic Pope? A former Catholic nun did a scholarly piece of biblical history about the Pope in http://www.catholicconcerns.com/Popes.html Prior to Pope Gregory VII, *>  There is one Biblical qualification for being a bishop which *>  most popes have not met since the first few centuries of the *>  church. The Apostle Paul said, *> *>  "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife…" *>  (1 Timothy 3:1, emphasis added) While the Pope will not be a "man" in dillon’s non-biological sense, who is going to give the new Pope the Olympic Games test for "sex", or what biblical source ruled that the Pope cannot be a hermaphodite! — Bob.

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