Question:
> Diana, traditionally, many people, particularly Jews, but not limited to > them, will not spell out the word because it’s considered > disrespectful. "G-d" is considered to be a much more respectful form. > Not by all, but, by a significant portion of the world’s population. > And, BTW, regarding a comment by Charles, being Jewish does not mean one > cannot be a Christian, nor vice versa. It’s not necessary to be one or > the other. There are many "believing Jews" in the world and many > Christians who remember and revere their religion’s roots in Judaism. > Carol P.
Carol — I have always distinguished between Jews as someone who subscribed to the tenets of Judaism and Hebrews as someone of Semitic racial heritage. Have I been saying it wrong all these years? Please tell me; this inquiring mind wants to know. Charles Evans
Response:
Thanks Carol I understand now. To Moshe Please forgive me my ignorance of your faith. I apologize. Diana — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Diana, traditionally, many people, particularly Jews, but not limited to > them, will not spell out the word because it’s considered > disrespectful. "G-d" is considered to be a much more respectful form. > Not by all, but, by a significant portion of the world’s population. > And, BTW, regarding a comment by Charles, being Jewish does not mean one > cannot be a Christian, nor vice versa. It’s not necessary to be one or > the other. There are many "believing Jews" in the world and many > Christians who remember and revere their religion’s roots in Judaism. > Carol P. > Carol P.
Response:
Charles Yes you have been doing good but it is getting worse. I am sorry for intruding on your *discussion* I am also very sorry you almost lost your son. That had to be a horrible experience. Forgive the intrusion, my chest is killing me today and I guess it is my nerves. BTW have you heard from Bonita? I wrote to her and it bounced saying no such address. Thanks. If you do let her know I said hello. Diana — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Charles > Thanks for your post. Is there a chance you and he and take the > *discussion* > to email then and duke it out there? I have my own personal opinion on > this > but I won’t voice it as it would just make it even worse but if you are > interested in my view email me. Does he stood before them as a sheep for > the > slaughter sound familiar? Why must everything be an argument with you > It needn’t be. I *tried* to avoid any such confrontation for 2-3 days. > Apparently you didn’t notice. He kept on provoking until he got me engaged. > I figured that was what he wanted, so I let him know what I really thought. > All of that could have been avoided had he been decent enough to go away > when he was asked. I very reluctantly told about our son’s involvement with > chromium, which was terribly traumatic to him and our family. We almost > lost him. But this Moshe character wouldn’t let it alone, continuing to ask > questions about it, wanting to "understand" it better, and then attempting > to discredit me when I *still* wouldn’t answer. I believer I demonstrated > reasonable restraint in this matter, but when I am thoroughly provoked, it’s > no holds barred for me. > Ronnie Ruff tried to tell this person not to keep on, but, then, Ronnie got > dragged into it too by this individual. I suggest you may want to publicly > chastise him for being so obtuse in this criticism of Ronnie and me — > that’s where it all started. > Charles Evans
Response:
irnews.net… > Ron — Were you and I the only two reading this thread?? Maybe one copy of > a message is not enough?
I was reading. I for one, would have liked to see the explanation of the effect that chromium had on your son. To me personally it was not enough to be handed the warning without the reason. If there are circumstances that make the supplement dangerous in your view then it should be shared. If the aim is to prevent something happening to someone else then I think we need to know more details. I found it a little odd that you dangled part of it and then didn’t proceed.
Response:
> Charles > Thanks for your post. Is there a chance you and he and take the *discussion* > to email then and duke it out there? I have my own personal opinion on this > but I won’t voice it as it would just make it even worse but if you are > interested in my view email me. Does he stood before them as a sheep for the > slaughter sound familiar? Why must everything be an argument with you
It needn’t be. I *tried* to avoid any such confrontation for 2-3 days. Apparently you didn’t notice. He kept on provoking until he got me engaged. I figured that was what he wanted, so I let him know what I really thought. All of that could have been avoided had he been decent enough to go away when he was asked. I very reluctantly told about our son’s involvement with chromium, which was terribly traumatic to him and our family. We almost lost him. But this Moshe character wouldn’t let it alone, continuing to ask questions about it, wanting to "understand" it better, and then attempting to discredit me when I *still* wouldn’t answer. I believer I demonstrated reasonable restraint in this matter, but when I am thoroughly provoked, it’s no holds barred for me. Ronnie Ruff tried to tell this person not to keep on, but, then, Ronnie got dragged into it too by this individual. I suggest you may want to publicly chastise him for being so obtuse in this criticism of Ronnie and me — that’s where it all started. Charles Evans
Response:
> Moshe > I use to do what you do and try not to offend. Now I speak my mind because > God says in the Christian belief that if we deny him before Men then he will > deny us before the Father so I now let it all hang out. LOL. I do try to not > be too preachy as they say but still tell what is in MY belief. Thanks for > the forgiveness, I have a tendency to open mouth insert foot lots of times. > It is a wonder I am ever hungry with my foot in my mouth so much > Di
You know who put his foot in his mouth more than anyone else in the 4 Gospels? Peter. Then look at Peter boldly preaching in Acts 2. It was not really a different Peter. In both cases it was Peter trying very hard to do what was right. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not successfully. But Peter was always trying. The only people who don’t make mistakes are the people who don’t try to do anything. Lots of people think that it is a shame that Peter lost his faith and started sinking into the water after only a few steps. But the rest of the disciples never had the faith to get out of the boat at all and so never even took as many steps on water as Peter did. At least Peter tried rather than remaining seated. When my daughter was learning to walk, she would take 2 steps and then fall on her butt. I didn’t concentrate on the fall on her butt. I concentrated on the 2 momentous steps she took before falling on her butt. At least my daughter was trying rather than remaining seated. When I did 2 years of public speaking in the 1980’s I made more mistakes than my iMac hard drive could possibly hold. But I tried and did my best. When you created this thread you were trying to be a peacemaker, and Matthew 5:9 contains a blessing for you. – moshe
Response:
Thank you Moshe. You are very kind to say so. I love Peter. He and Paul are my two favorite Apostles. Thanks again Diana — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Moshe > I use to do what you do and try not to offend. Now I speak my mind because > God says in the Christian belief that if we deny him before Men then he will > deny us before the Father so I now let it all hang out. LOL. I do try to not > be too preachy as they say but still tell what is in MY belief. Thanks for > the forgiveness, I have a tendency to open mouth insert foot lots of times. > It is a wonder I am ever hungry with my foot in my mouth so much > Di > You know who put his foot in his mouth more than > anyone else in the 4 Gospels? > Peter. > Then look at Peter boldly preaching in Acts 2. > It was not really a different Peter. > In both cases it was Peter trying very hard to do what was right. > Sometimes successfully, sometimes not successfully. > But Peter was always trying. > The only people who don’t make mistakes are the people > who don’t try to do anything. > Lots of people think that it is a shame that Peter lost his > faith and started sinking into the water after only a > few steps. > But the rest of the disciples never had the faith to get > out of the boat at all and so never even took as > many steps on water as Peter did. > At least Peter tried rather than remaining seated. > When my daughter was learning to walk, she would > take 2 steps and then fall on her butt. > I didn’t concentrate on the fall on her butt. > I concentrated on the 2 momentous steps she > took before falling on her butt. > At least my daughter was trying rather than > remaining seated. > When I did 2 years of public speaking in the > 1980’s I made more mistakes than my iMac > hard drive could possibly hold. > But I tried and did my best. > When you created this thread you were trying to be a > peacemaker, and Matthew 5:9 contains a blessing > for you. > – moshe
Response:
Different forms of Judaism believe differently about the need for the mother to be the Jewish parent. Reform Jews believe in Patrlineal (sp) descent as well. It’s a huge debate between the different factions. Since in early times, only the mother could be 100% verified, it was the mother’s bloodline that determined one’s heritage. I would say that now, with DNA available, this will become a non-issue at some point in time. For now, all Orthodox and most Conservative Jews follow the belief that the religion of the mother is actually the religion of the child. Personally, I feel if you are raised a Jew….and practice Judaism, you are a Jew and should be given all rights and privleges as such. Likewise, even if you have 2 Jewish parents, but are raised and believe in Christianity, you are a Christian. It’s how we live….not who bore us that determines our religion. IMHO that is 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My understanding is that a Jewish person is someone born of a Jewish > (ethnic) mother. > Jude > — > - Coming Soon – BestOrgs.NET > Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
Response:
> Thanks Carol > I understand now. To Moshe Please forgive me my ignorance of your faith. I > apologize. > Diana
You sincerely meant no harm. You just didn’t know. I already realized that when I read your first post. No apology is necessary. – moshe
Response:
> When did Charles become Jewish. There is a small sect of Jews > in the world that believe Jesus Christ was their savior. One > group is called Jews for Jesus and then there are those that > frequently attend services in temple and participate in all > religious holidays and are very active and involved with the > synagogue. But they beleve that Jesus was their saviour. For > all the rest of us, which is I am sure 99.9 percent of the > Jewish populatioln, we are still waiting for our Messiah to > come. We dont recognize Jesus as that person.
Just as there is a broad spectrum of beliefs and practices in Judaism, all the way from the very liberal and relatively non-obsevant Reform synagogues to the very conservative and strictly-observant Orthodox synagogues, there is also a broad spectrum of beliefs and practices in Messianic Judaism (Jews who believe in Yeshua/Jesus). For example, some keep kosher while others do not. Some keep Shabbat while others do not. There are a multitude of Messianic denominations and national orgaizations and independent congregations. But the non-Messianic do have us out-numbered :^) – moshe
Response:
Moshe I use to do what you do and try not to offend. Now I speak my mind because God says in the Christian belief that if we deny him before Men then he will deny us before the Father so I now let it all hang out. LOL. I do try to not be too preachy as they say but still tell what is in MY belief. Thanks for the forgiveness, I have a tendency to open mouth insert foot lots of times. It is a wonder I am ever hungry with my foot in my mouth so much Di — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The spelling "G-d" is based on an old Jewish tradition > which is perfectly OK to perpetuate according to the > principles of Romans 14:1-7, which says that different > people can use different traditions to glorify G-d (or > God) and that neither sise should criticize the other side’s > traditions because G-d (or God) is glorified by > the traditions of both (as long as such traditions > do not violate an explicit commandments of G-d, > of course.) > Charles——-Christian means CHRIST LIKE > Now both please stop. One seems to be afraid to say the name of our God in > full > I am not afraid to say the name of G-d in full. > I merely got in the habit of writing G-d rather than > God so that I would not unnecessarily offend > Orthodox Jews who consider the spelling of > "God" to be a violation of one of the 10 Commandments > because the moment I turn off my monitor it > destroys the image of God’s name on the screen. > In other words, I personally feel free to write "God", > but I then feel compelled to restrain that freedom, > obligated to write "G-d" so as not to offend the > weaker brother does find offense in writing the > full name of God and then destroying it. > Obliging the conscience of the weaker brother > is explained in Romans 14:12-23. > and the other is not acting like Christ would have him to act being he > was once very prominent in the Church. > I am not throwing stones but gentlemen , this needs to stop. I have had my > share of wars but now I see where I was wrong. This is getting old to me > even with who does or doesn’t believe in God and the spelling bee. Charles I > know we have had our problems but all in all I think you are an ok guy. Do > you really think that you are treating people the way Jesus would want you > to? > Charles was acting like the people in Matthew 23, so I > corrected him as such. > In fact, my words to Mr. Evans were rather mild compared > to the way that Yeshua (Jesus) spoke to such people > in Matthew 23 and other similar passages in the Gospels. > At first I spoke to him politely. > Then I found it necessary to correct his unsubstantiated accusations. > Then I found it necessary to rebuke his meanness. > If you do not think that is "Christ-like", then please re-read > the 4 Gospels. > – moshe
Response:
> Carol — > I have always distinguished between Jews as someone who subscribed to the > tenets of Judaism and > Hebrews as someone of Semitic racial heritage. Have I been saying it wrong > all these years? Please tell me; this inquiring mind wants to know.
In my opinion, yes. I would assume you’ve heard of "Jews for Jesus" — apparently they consider themselves Jews, while still believing in Jesus. I recall a Campus Crusade for Christ that was broadcast years ago. Paul Stookey and Peter Yarrow (from Peter, Paul, and Mary) were part of the broadcast. At one point, Peter said, "I’m a Jew, but I believe in Christ." My copy of Beginnings in Jewish Philosophy describes Judaism as an open religion and indicates that other than the belief in God, Jews may hold many different beliefs and do not hold all beliefs in common. Granted this is a book used in a Reform Temple, but they consider themselves Jews. Additionally, there are many who define themselves as "non-religious Jews." They say that they HAVE a religion because they were born into it, but they do not practice it. But they don’t refer to themselves as Hebrews, they refer to themselves as Jews. Our own Loretta refers to herself as Jewish, but refers to herself as an agnostic. So, while you may have always distinguished between Jews and Hebrews depending upon whether the subscribe to the tenets of Judaism, I’d say that many, if not most, who consider themselves Jews do NOT make that distinction. Carol P.
Response:
Ron — Were you and I the only two reading this thread?? Maybe one copy of a message is not enough? Charles Evans ——
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It will never got to email Di cuz the troll in this case would not > have an audience. I warned him for days it would end up like this but > he kept up his banter…
Response:
> Ronnie > there ya go tellin people where I live again LOL Now I gotta put on a bigger > pot of stew.
AND move to a bigger bridge. Charles
Response:
Charles Now you are talking. Will you carry my fire barrel for me? I will carry the stew. LOL Di — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ronnie > there ya go tellin people where I live again LOL Now I gotta put on a > bigger > pot of stew. > AND move to a bigger bridge. > Charles
Response:
When did Charles become Jewish. There is a small sect of Jews in the world that believe Jesus Christ was their savior. One group is called Jews for Jesus and then there are those that frequently attend services in temple and participate in all religious holidays and are very active and involved with the synagogue. But they beleve that Jesus was their saviour. For all the rest of us, which is I am sure 99.9 percent of the Jewish populatioln, we are still waiting for our Messiah to come. We dont recognize Jesus as that person. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com
Response:
The spelling "G-d" is based on an old Jewish tradition which is perfectly OK to perpetuate according to the principles of Romans 14:1-7, which says that different people can use different traditions to glorify G-d (or God) and that neither sise should criticize the other side’s traditions because G-d (or God) is glorified by the traditions of both (as long as such traditions do not violate an explicit commandments of G-d, of course.) > Charles——-Christian means CHRIST LIKE > Now both please stop. One seems to be afraid to say the name of our God in > full
I am not afraid to say the name of G-d in full. I merely got in the habit of writing G-d rather than God so that I would not unnecessarily offend Orthodox Jews who consider the spelling of "God" to be a violation of one of the 10 Commandments because the moment I turn off my monitor it destroys the image of God’s name on the screen. In other words, I personally feel free to write "God", but I then feel compelled to restrain that freedom, obligated to write "G-d" so as not to offend the weaker brother does find offense in writing the full name of God and then destroying it. Obliging the conscience of the weaker brother is explained in Romans 14:12-23. > and the other is not acting like Christ would have him to act being he > was once very prominent in the Church. > I am not throwing stones but gentlemen , this needs to stop. I have had my > share of wars but now I see where I was wrong. This is getting old to me > even with who does or doesn’t believe in God and the spelling bee. Charles I > know we have had our problems but all in all I think you are an ok guy. Do > you really think that you are treating people the way Jesus would want you > to?
Charles was acting like the people in Matthew 23, so I corrected him as such. In fact, my words to Mr. Evans were rather mild compared to the way that Yeshua (Jesus) spoke to such people in Matthew 23 and other similar passages in the Gospels. At first I spoke to him politely. Then I found it necessary to correct his unsubstantiated accusations. Then I found it necessary to rebuke his meanness. If you do not think that is "Christ-like", then please re-read the 4 Gospels. – moshe
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Diana, traditionally, many people, particularly Jews, but not limited to > them, will not spell out the word because it’s considered > disrespectful. "G-d" is considered to be a much more respectful form. > Not by all, but, by a significant portion of the world’s population. > And, BTW, regarding a comment by Charles, being Jewish does not mean one > cannot be a Christian, nor vice versa. It’s not necessary to be one or > the other. There are many "believing Jews" in the world and many > Christians who remember and revere their religion’s roots in Judaism. > Carol P. > Carol — > I have always distinguished between Jews as someone who subscribed to the > tenets of Judaism and > Hebrews as someone of Semitic racial heritage. Have I been saying it wrong > all these years? Please tell me; this inquiring mind wants to know.
My understanding is that a Jewish person is someone born of a Jewish (ethnic) mother. Jude — - Coming Soon – BestOrgs.NET Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch
Response:
Ronnie there ya go tellin people where I live again LOL Now I gotta put on a bigger pot of stew. Di — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Diana who isn’t perfect either by a long shot but pressing forward to do >what is right in the sight of the Lord. >Now I stand back and await the flames that will retire me from this group >into lurk mode only. > Hey Di… I warned the moshe guy a few times it would all get nasty > but he just made fun of me so let him get his lickin’ To be truthful > I think he enjoys it as those under the bridge guys do :-) > Ronnie Ruff > http://www.erols.com/driver8 > ICQ 82821284 > "It’s just D, C and G" > Peter Buck R.E.M
Response:
>Charles >Thanks for your post. Is there a chance you and he and take the *discussion* >to email then and duke it out there? I have my own personal opinion on this >but I won’t voice it as it would just make it even worse but if you are >interested in my view email me. Does he stood before them as a sheep for the >slaughter sound familiar? Why must everything be an argument with you? I >personally have found that dignity doesn’t mean alot because there does come >a day when you lose it all. I did but it makes one humble. Thanks for >listening. >Diana
It will never got to email Di cuz the troll in this case would not have an audience. I warned him for days it would end up like this but he kept up his banter… Ronnie Ruff http://www.erols.com/driver8 ICQ 82821284 "It’s just D, C and G" Peter Buck R.E.M
Response:
>Diana who isn’t perfect either by a long shot but pressing forward to do >what is right in the sight of the Lord. >Now I stand back and await the flames that will retire me from this group >into lurk mode only.
Hey Di… I warned the moshe guy a few times it would all get nasty but he just made fun of me so let him get his lickin’ To be truthful I think he enjoys it as those under the bridge guys do :-) Ronnie Ruff http://www.erols.com/driver8 ICQ 82821284 "It’s just D, C and G" Peter Buck R.E.M
Response:
Charles Thanks for your post. Is there a chance you and he and take the *discussion* to email then and duke it out there? I have my own personal opinion on this but I won’t voice it as it would just make it even worse but if you are interested in my view email me. Does he stood before them as a sheep for the slaughter sound familiar? Why must everything be an argument with you? I personally have found that dignity doesn’t mean alot because there does come a day when you lose it all. I did but it makes one humble. Thanks for listening. Diana — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I tried for 2-3 days to avoid any discussion with this person, but he > persisted, but I said in my last message that I was through. If he keeps > attempting to discredit me, however, I *will* resume my postings with him. > Thank you for your concern. > Charles Evans > Charles——-Christian means CHRIST LIKE > Now both please stop. One seems to be afraid to say the name of our God in > full and the other is not acting like Christ would have him to act being > he > was once very prominent in the Church.
Response:
Diana, traditionally, many people, particularly Jews, but not limited to them, will not spell out the word because it’s considered disrespectful. "G-d" is considered to be a much more respectful form. Not by all, but, by a significant portion of the world’s population. And, BTW, regarding a comment by Charles, being Jewish does not mean one cannot be a Christian, nor vice versa. It’s not necessary to be one or the other. There are many "believing Jews" in the world and many Christians who remember and revere their religion’s roots in Judaism. Carol P. Carol P.
Response:
Charles——-Christian means CHRIST LIKE Now both please stop. One seems to be afraid to say the name of our God in full and the other is not acting like Christ would have him to act being he was once very prominent in the Church. I am not throwing stones but gentlemen , this needs to stop. I have had my share of wars but now I see where I was wrong. This is getting old to me even with who does or doesn’t believe in God and the spelling bee. Charles I know we have had our problems but all in all I think you are an ok guy. Do you really think that you are treating people the way Jesus would want you too? Isn’t that what we as Christians are suppose to do is LIFT each other up not TEAR each other up? Please stop——-Both. Charles I am guilty of this too but as Christians we have to be a Christian (CHRIST-LIKE) for others to see the way of the Lord so please stop this. I am on my virtual knees begging this all to stop. Diana who isn’t perfect either by a long shot but pressing forward to do what is right in the sight of the Lord. Now I stand back and await the flames that will retire me from this group into lurk mode only. — To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.
Response:
I tried for 2-3 days to avoid any discussion with this person, but he persisted, but I said in my last message that I was through. If he keeps attempting to discredit me, however, I *will* resume my postings with him. Thank you for your concern. Charles Evans
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Charles——-Christian means CHRIST LIKE > Now both please stop. One seems to be afraid to say the name of our God in > full and the other is not acting like Christ would have him to act being he > was once very prominent in the Church.
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