Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->BA should fire this employee, or at least make him ask public excuses >about what happened. >The problem with this story is that to some people (presumably Jewish) , >this story so well confirms their deepest suspicions of widespread >prejudice that they do not take the time to be skeptical. Mr. Dissen has >written a letter of protest; Mr. Marcovich declares he’ll never fly them >again. But anyone with any rudimentary BS detection capabilities knows >the story doesn’t make any sense. (This doesn’t mean nothing ever >happened, just that it has probably been distorted beyond recognition by >people who modify the facts to fit their beliefs and suspicions rather than >the other way around.) >Now I know how hard it can be, in a world where prejudice does exist, to >try to live without having one’s elbows out at all times and without seeing >prejudice under every tree.  Some people succeed, others don’t.

        Can it be that British Airways will try to make amend’s for their and in future make better provision’s for such matter?        Right now they seem to have problems making sure that people arrive with thier baggage as widely reported on the UK news        This story is true and they have picked the wrong target, the person involved happens to be an Attoney General in the States incidentally a place where these things are taken to with battle axes!         You don’t need to prove that your not guilty in such matter’s since a clean record of innocence does Lot’s more.               M Rokach

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 RK> The problem with this story is that to some people  RK> (presumably Jewish), this story so well confirms their  RK> deepest suspicions of widespread prejudice that they do  RK> not take the time to be skeptical. [snip]  RK> But anyone with any rudimentary BS detection capabilities  RK> knows the story doesn’t make any sense. I smelled the BS when this thread first popped up, and, for the record, I am Jewish. The problem is that when you’re looking for prejudice, you’re going to find it, no matter what you are.  RK> (This doesn’t mean nothing ever happened, just that it  RK> has probably been distorted beyond recognition by people  RK> who modify the facts to fit their beliefs and suspicions  RK> rather than the other way around.) I agree.  The fact is that people are way too sensitive these days.  It’s like Seinfeld’s Uncle Leo (for those who can follow my analogy [btw, not mentioning Seinfeld b/c he's Jewish]) who thinks everthing and everyone is an antisemite.  Please. What it comes down to is that people don’t want to take responsibility for their actions, they want preferential treatment, etc., and everyone else is to blame for their own problems.    RK> Now I know how hard it can be, in a world where prejudice  RK> does exist, to try to live without having one’s elbows out  RK> at all times and without seeing prejudice under every tree.    RK> Some people succeed, others don’t. It’s stories like these that fuel the fire.  I’m sure that plenty of people (Jews and Gentiles alike) read this thread and decided that there was indeed some antisemitism directed at that particular individual who happened to be Jewish. Now, whether or not the incident happened as described, or if it happened at all, we’ll never know.  If it did not happen, than really what we have here is someone looking to blame someone else for his own inferiority complex.  If so, get a life. If the incident did transpire as described, than the people at BA who kicked this guy out need to get a life. It come down to the fact that we all need to get a life… and not be so sensitive.   Scott

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> > There may be some confusion between the practice of formal worship in a > religious assembly, which requires a minimum of ten men (a "minyan") and > personal prayer, undertaken several times a day, often, of necessity, > performed alone.

        There is no problem in forming a minyan. I am an atheist and an American, but I was in a minyan at the Wailing Wall because a 9-member group needed a tenth to fill it out.  Webster says a "minyan" requires ten adult Jews, but this is not correct.  All that is needed is one adult Jew with nine extra Hebrew Bibles in a carry-on bag.  My only trouble was that they had to start over when it was discovered that I was holding the Hebrew Bible upside down: after that things went perfectly and they were very grateful.  I enjoyed it too! H. Craig

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If that really happened, I will never fly BA again, I hope that BA will > find a good justification for this fact. > As has been already noted, there is yet to be any confirmation that BA were > even actually involved, and have been quoted as saying that their lounges > are for everyone…. so what have they to "justify"? > — > regards, > Ianp >                                      http://www.darktower.com/darktower/ > "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies prefer a banana…"

BA should fire this employee, or at least make him ask public excuses about what happened.

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>BA should fire this employee, or at least make him ask public excuses >about what happened.

The problem with this story is that to some people (presumably Jewish) , this story so well confirms their deepest suspicions of widespread prejudice that they do not take the time to be skeptical. Mr. Dissen has written a letter of protest; Mr. Marcovich declares he’ll never fly them again. But anyone with any rudimentary BS detection capabilities knows the story doesn’t make any sense. (This doesn’t mean nothing ever happened, just that it has probably been distorted beyond recognition by people who modify the facts to fit their beliefs and suspicions rather than the other way around.) Now I know how hard it can be, in a world where prejudice does exist, to try to live without having one’s elbows out at all times and without seeing prejudice under every tree.  Some people succeed, others don’t.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What do you mean with "not praying alone ?" > There may be some confusion between the practice of formal worship in a > religious assembly, which requires a minimum of ten men (a "minyan") and > personal prayer, undertaken several times a day, often, of necessity, > performed alone. > — > regards, > Ianp >                                      http://www.darktower.com/darktower/ > "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies prefer a banana…"

 I knew it (I pray everyday…), this was an ironic question, what’s the matter in praying alone ?? It’s not forbidden.

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> What do you mean with "not praying alone ?"

There may be some confusion between the practice of formal worship in a religious assembly, which requires a minimum of ten men (a "minyan") and personal prayer, undertaken several times a day, often, of necessity, performed alone. — regards, Ianp                                      http://www.darktower.com/darktower/ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies prefer a banana…"

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> If that really happened, I will never fly BA again, I hope that BA will > find a good justification for this fact.

As has been already noted, there is yet to be any confirmation that BA were even actually involved, and have been quoted as saying that their lounges are for everyone…. so what have they to "justify"? — regards, Ianp                                      http://www.darktower.com/darktower/ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies prefer a banana…"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" > of a lounge for "praying."…. > … > Bill Mulcahy >    Considering that the source of this item is our old friend the rockabye > looney bird, whose grasp on reality may be most charitably described as > tenuous, it would be premature to conclude anything whatsoever about the > supposed incident.  Certainly if Mr. Tyk is an Orthodox Jew, he would not > have been praying alone. > — >    David A. Kosower

What do you mean with "not praying alone ?"

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My old politics prof. always used to say "Consider the source" >I smell troll.

Stephan Laengerer "The world is a book.  Those who do not travel, read only one page".

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>: According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" >: of a lounge for "praying." Ma Aaron Tyk was doing his normal daily   >: prayers at London’s Heathrow Airport when a British Airway official >: told him "You don’t belong here. You’re Jewish and this (the lounge)   >: is for Muslims only."   >:   >If BA has a lounge for Muslims only without have a lounge reserved for >the Jewish and Christian faith, I will eat my hat without salt and pepper >:).

Or "dead horse" (tomato sauce) Terri Allen Uni of Melbourne, Austin & Repat Medical Centre, Heidelberg, Vic.

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> According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" > of a lounge for "praying." Ma Aaron Tyk was doing his normal daily > prayers at London’s Heathrow Airport when a British Airway official > told him "You don’t belong here. You’re Jewish and this (the lounge) > is for Muslims only." > A British Airways spokesman denied the airline had a policy banning > Jews from its lounges. "The Oasis lounge is a lounge for all people," > he said.  Mr. Tyk is considering sueing. > Bill Mulcahy

If that really happened, I will never fly BA again, I hope that BA will find a good justification for this fact. Olivier.

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[Posted and mailed] :>> According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" :>> of a lounge for "praying."…. :>> Bill Mulcahy             [ gratuitous insult snipped ] :>                    Certainly if Mr. Tyk is an Orthodox Jew, he would not :>have been praying alone. Au contraire, Mr. Kosower. When connecting between flights it is quite common for there not be a quorum of ten (minyan) and thus when the time for prayers come, you pray alone. In fact, I have found Orly a quite pleasant place to pray when waiting for my connection (this was when Delta flew the Orly/TA run and thus I could get a quite convenient Chicago/Orly on American and easy security in Paris as Delta accepted the American Airlines security check). the letter written by his boss, New York State Attorney General Dennis Vacco to the president of BA complaining about this action. :>   David A. Kosower —

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: According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" : of a lounge for "praying." Ma Aaron Tyk was doing his normal daily   : prayers at London’s Heathrow Airport when a British Airway official : told him "You don’t belong here. You’re Jewish and this (the lounge)   : is for Muslims only."   :   If BA has a lounge for Muslims only without have a lounge reserved for the Jewish and Christian faith, I will eat my hat without salt and pepper :) . : Bill Mulcahy — Hassan Alam

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> According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" > of a lounge for "praying."…. > … > Bill Mulcahy

   Considering that the source of this item is our old friend the rockabye looney bird, whose grasp on reality may be most charitably described as tenuous, it would be premature to conclude anything whatsoever about the supposed incident.  Certainly if Mr. Tyk is an Orthodox Jew, he would not have been praying alone. —    David A. Kosower

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> Now, while I have absolutely no data, I might hazard a *guess* that > the pious gentleman in question had wandered into one of the areas set aside > for Islamic worship, which might, obviously, have been a sensitive mistake. > These are *not* operated by British Airways, but by the British Airports > Authority, a totally different organisation, who actually run the > airport, but not the airline. > I suggest that, at the very least, the newspaper may have confused BA > with BAA.

But this in at JFK where the chaples are owned by the PA.  However, I can imagine god up there looking down at all the airports of the world and just despising it when he sees someone worshiping in the wrong way in the right place.  That must really tick the big guy off.  Good thing he sent the angel of kicking people out to do his work.   — David Case THE THIRD FORCE

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> Ian, we here in the States put quotes around "newspaper" when referring > to the New York Post.  Which gives you an idea of how seriously most > would take it as a source :-) .

Somebody took it seriously enough to want to post it … hence my preface, "I smell troll".  :-) — regards, Ianp                                      http://www.darktower.com/darktower/ "PKZIP OLDKITBAG.ZIP C:TROUBLES*.*"

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Preece) writes: > According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" > of a lounge for "praying." Ma Aaron Tyk was doing his normal daily   > prayers at London’s Heathrow Airport when a British Airway official > told him "You don’t belong here. You’re Jewish and this (the lounge)   > is for Muslims only."   >I smell troll. (snip) >I suggest that, at the very least, the newspaper may have confused BA >with BAA.

Ian, we here in the States put quotes around "newspaper" when referring to the New York Post.  Which gives you an idea of how seriously most would take it as a source :-) . Deborah Stevenson

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>According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" >of a lounge for "praying." Ma Aaron Tyk was doing his normal daily   >prayers at London’s Heathrow Airport when a British Airway official >told him "You don’t belong here. You’re Jewish and this (the lounge)   >is for Muslims only."  

        Antisemitism from Europeans?  I am shocked to find such a thing!         Seriously, as a religous Jew (Conservative) I have had an occasion or two to pray in an airport lounge.  You sort of just stand someplace and read the Jewish prayerbook (The Siddur) for a few minutes.  Logically, one would have to throw out all the people standing and reading magazines, newspapers and books, if this sort of thing was not allowed.  But they just picked on him because he was Jewish. I’m extermely angered by this, but somehow not surprised. Robert Kaiser

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According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" of a lounge for "praying." Ma Aaron Tyk was doing his normal daily   prayers at London’s Heathrow Airport when a British Airway official told him "You don’t belong here. You’re Jewish and this (the lounge)   is for Muslims only."   A British Airways spokesman denied the airline had a policy banning   Jews from its lounges. "The Oasis lounge is a lounge for all people," he said.  Mr. Tyk is considering sueing. Bill Mulcahy

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> According to the Oct. 14th  N.Y. Post an Orthodox Jew was "ordered out" > of a lounge for "praying." Ma Aaron Tyk was doing his normal daily   > prayers at London’s Heathrow Airport when a British Airway official > told him "You don’t belong here. You’re Jewish and this (the lounge)   > is for Muslims only."  

I smell troll. Given that LHR provides a number of areas specifically set aside for prayer, or simply quiet contemplation, and that I’ve never, in many years of travel, seen anybody tossed out of a BA lounge for not being a follower of Islam, I’d hazard a guess that this is either a total fabrication, a gleeful distortion of the facts by somebody wanting to make trouble for BA, or some combination thereof, born of confusion. Now, while I have absolutely no data, I might hazard a *guess* that the pious gentleman in question had wandered into one of the areas set aside for Islamic worship, which might, obviously, have been a sensitive mistake. These are *not* operated by British Airways, but by the British Airports Authority, a totally different organisation, who actually run the airport, but not the airline. I suggest that, at the very least, the newspaper may have confused BA with BAA. — regards, Ianp                                      http://www.darktower.com/darktower/ "PKZIP OLDKITBAG.ZIP C:TROUBLES*.*"

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